Combat tree :
Lightning Reflexes 5/5
Imp. Sinister Strike 2/2
Imp. Backstab 3/3
Precision 5/5
Dual Wield Spec 5/5
Assassination tree :
Malice 5/5
Ruthlessness 3/3
Murder 2/2
Lethality 5/5
This leaves me with around 16 or so points left over that I don't know where to toss. Is this a good setup, or what would you suggest?
Why do you have three points in ruthlessness but none in improved evsic?
Improved evisc gives you a guaranteed .75 combo points worth of damage at the moment of impact at no extra energy cost, ruthless 3 gives you an average .60 combo points per eviscerate at extra energy cost which only becomes acceptable and your extra damage thus usable if the fight is long enough for two finishers to hit for 4+ (on most xp mobs it will go to waste), the fact that imp evisc only works on eviscerate is rather irrelevant since that will be your finisher of choice with very few exceptions (Rupture is decent on high AC bosses but has no chance to crit, some pvp situations will have you using an early KS,...).
Why did you take reflexes 5 if you just worked your way to lethality and spent points in improved gouge? While grouping you will not tank as a backstabber and while soloing the mobs will be gouged for about half the fight.
Precision + DW Spec are 10 points, while improved DW is a decent damage boost unless you want to go up the combat tree for blade flurry, adrenaline rush aggression and a weapon spec it's not worth the huge investment, I assume you aren't because you wouldn't have worked yourself to lethality were you not planning on using daggers and the combat tree is much better suited to maces.
If you're going for daggers drop improved reflexes, ruthlessness, precision and DW spec and get MoD / Camo, Opportunity, improved eviscerate and start working towards cold blood through IIP, then for pure PvE continue through seal fate to vigor or for better pvp performance go up the subtlety tree over imp ambush ghostly strke imp sap and initiative to preparation.
If you're not going for daggers go for maces to get the highest possible damage bonus from the bonus attacks SS and blade flurry give you, dump all of assassination except for malice and improved evis, in case you plan on pvping trade improved backstab and gouge for deflection and riposte, get five points of mace spec, blad flurry aggression and adrenaline rush.
Do rogues solo well? I'm considering making one as an alt (I have hundreds of alts that I never play)
quote:
Maradon! had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
You really should spend points in improved elvis.Do rogues solo well? I'm considering making one as an alt (I have hundreds of alts that I never play)
Rogues are middle of the road as far as solo goes, combat builds can solo rather well (especially once they max out their mace spec), dagger builds kill somewhat slowly without a tank but still get the job done, we're nowhere near what a shaman or paladin can do though.
One thing we're terriffic at is soloing casters. At around 44 I used to chain-kill casters two or three levels above me for xp, seldom losing more than 20% hp during a fight. Mod fucked around with this message on 01-10-2005 at 04:55 PM.
I got that wrong, I meant to put in Reflexes 3/5. I use Gouge mainly to get behind a target and backstab, and 4 seconds is MORE than enough time for that. I only had Reflexes/Imp sinister in there as I was working up to Precision and DW Spec. DW spec for when I use a sword in my offhand and want the extra damage.
I had Ruthlessness in there to fill out the rest of the 10 points I need to get to Lethality, though I can see why putting them into Eviscerate would be a bit better.
quote:
Khyron stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
I'm mainly trying for a dagger/dagger, or dagger/sword spec. I want to hit fast and crit quite a bitI got that wrong, I meant to put in Reflexes 3/5. I use Gouge mainly to get behind a target and backstab, and 4 seconds is MORE than enough time for that. I only had Reflexes/Imp sinister in there as I was working up to Precision and DW Spec. DW spec for when I use a sword in my offhand and want the extra damage.
I had Ruthlessness in there to fill out the rest of the 10 points I need to get to Lethality, though I can see why putting them into Eviscerate would be a bit better.
Dagger / Dagger is good for delivering poison, however good daggers are very hard to find and getting two that are appropriate for your level is nearly impossible, you'll want a sword in your offhand most of the time, there's spades of them and they're a good balance between melee dps and speed for poison hits. For dagger-based special attacks only having one in your main hand is required.
DW spec will add half your offhand weapon damage to your dps, the 10 points needed to get there are much better spent on opportunity, especially if you will be soloing with gouge, when doing that my backstabs often make up as much as 65% of my total damage.
The point of gouge is not only to allow you to backstab, it is also a good way to regain energy in a fight, you will want to always wait out your gouge duration before you stab so that with the energy you gained you can drop another gouge as soon as it comes up. This is why improved gouge is vital to a backstab build, it also allows you to bandage up for ~5 seconds which can really save your ass.
Basically, I got some backstab stuff for when I was in groups, and then got soloing stuff for the rest. So far it's worked rather well for me, but I don't PvP, so...*shrug* Currently I have all the assassination stuff and all the subtlety stuff, and am working up the combat tree.
Assassination
3 eviscerate
5 malice
3 ruthlessness
5 lethality
relentless strike
combat
2 sinister strike
5 lightning reflex
5 deflection
5 precision
3 improved backstab
riposte
5 dual wield
2 kick
blade flurry
adrenaline rush
Subtlety
3 master deception
Beast Mastery:
Improved Aspect of the Hawk 5/5
Endurance Training 5/5
Bestial Swiftness 1/1
Unleashed Fury 5/5
Thick Hide 5/5
Marksmanship:
Improved Concussive Shot 5/5
Improved Hunter's Mark 5/5
Leathal Shots 5/5
Mortal Shots 5/5
Barrage 2/2
Hawk Eye 3/3
Ranged Weapon Specialization 5/5
I'm speccing with PvE in mind.
quote:
Ragabash had this to say about Robocop:
similar to mine. I try to get combo points fast, and try to deny a lot of damage. note, I don't have all this yet, as I'm not level 60, but it is my plan. Course, I've never been very good at thinking these sort of things out, so maybe Mod's ideas are best.
Basically, I got some backstab stuff for when I was in groups, and then got soloing stuff for the rest. So far it's worked rather well for me, but I don't PvP, so...*shrug* Currently I have all the assassination stuff and all the subtlety stuff, and am working up the combat tree.
Assassination
3 eviscerate
5 malice
3 ruthlessness
5 lethality
relentless strike
combat
2 sinister strike
5 lightning reflex
5 deflection
5 precision
3 improved backstab
riposte
5 dual wield
2 kick
blade flurry
adrenaline rushSubtlety
3 master deception
Improved kick but no aggression in a pve build? 
MoD is a support skill, use it to get higher in the sub tree but it's not worth the points on it's own.
The whole mix and match theme is weak, you're of much more use to a group if you have one way to deal superb damage than three ways to do medicore damage. Focus on one weapon and playstyle and develop it.
Assassination Talents (30 points)
Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.
Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.
Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.
Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.
Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.
Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.
Improved Instant Poison - 5/5 points
Increases the chance to apply Instant Poison to your target by 10%.
Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.
Seal Fate - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.
Combat Talents (21 points)
# Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.
# Lightning Reflexes - 3/5 points
Increases your Dodge chance by 3%.
# Precision - 5/5 points
Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.
# Deflection - 5/5 points
Increases your Parry chance by 5%.
# Riposte - 1/1 point
A strike that becomes active after parrying an opponent's attack. This attack deals 150% weapon damage and disarms the target for 6 seconds.
# Dual Wield Specialization - 4/5 points
Increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 40%.
# Blade Flurry - 1/1 point
Increases your attack speed by 20%. In addition, attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 15 seconds.
quote:
Verily, JooJooFlop doth proclaim:
Rather than make a new thread for it I thought I'd post my hunter's planned talent route here for comments:Beast Mastery:
Improved Aspect of the Hawk 5/5
Endurance Training 5/5
Bestial Swiftness 1/1
Unleashed Fury 5/5
Thick Hide 5/5Marksmanship:
Improved Concussive Shot 5/5
Improved Hunter's Mark 5/5
Leathal Shots 5/5
Mortal Shots 5/5
Barrage 2/2
Hawk Eye 3/3
Ranged Weapon Specialization 5/5I'm speccing with PvE in mind.
Beastial Swiftness is a Waste, and is currently bugged anyway. If you outrun your pet, and it disappears instant recall. Save that point.
Drop the Aspect of the Hawk, and instead raise Aspect of Monkey, it will help you more overall where as Hawks addition is negligable.
Improved Hunters Mark, will help, but not really nessesary, overall the points would be better spent elsewhere, but if you want to keep it thats fine. I wouldn't recomend it over some of the other Talents.
Barrage's benefit is ENTIRELY situational, not worth the points spent, and is only going to help in the first place if you constantly group and have the situation arise, which is not all that common. It's benefit is also barely negiligable in the first place. You can drop this one entirely. You will not be using your Multi-Shot or Volley's solo very much AT ALL, and not too often in Group situations either save some instances IF your Tank is doing a good job. The 10% increase isn't worth the loss of two points, ESPECIALLY since you haven't even taken Aimed Shot, which is the next point.
Get Aimed Shot. Nuff said.
Ranged Weapon Specialization isn't worth it, for the piddly 5% Increase, ESPECIALLY for a top tier ability.
Take Scatter Shot. Nuff Said.
Take the rest of your left over points and drop them in the Beast Tree in Ferocity and Frenzy.
Thats like... 2 damage per second.
Whats the point?
quote:
Elvish Crack Piper spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Trueshot Aura Gives 30 attack power.Thats like... 2 damage per second.
Whats the point?
Which is why Improved Aspect of the Hawk and Imrpoved Hunters mark are also not worth it. Overall, the end result is a negligable effect.
And Dave, the problem with Ranged Spec is that it is pretty much useless, especially for so far down the tree. At MAX it adds 5% more damage, which is pretty pathetic. If you are doing 100 damage a shot, 5 more damage wont help much and the points spent are better served elsewhere, especially in the PvE where the extra on your pet is far far more effective.
quote:
There was much rejoicing when Ragabash said this:
I was going to go aggression until I started using bstab more in groups. I may change back to aggression later. As far as MoD, I like to be able to sneak past enemies to scout around. Perhaps when I hit 60 i'll drop it, but for now I like having it.
Decide on daggers or combat, otherwise half your skills will be wasted in every situation. If you're smart about it and use distract you can sneak through any zone that you would be hunting in without MoD (Remember, mob cannot see you if you're sneaked and behind them no matter what), MoD just makes it safer and easier, it's a decent skill but should be used as filler.
quote:
Addy had this to say about Tron:
This is my build for now. I'll probably change it at 60 to make it more PvP friendly. However, I think it's turned out well... apparently I do a lot more damage than other rogues my level, then again I'm pretty well equipped.
This looks like a good build, just one question: Why did you go for seal fate as a sword / mace user? Nine points (counting the four you had to dump into ruthlessness / relentless strikes to get there) for a base crit chance to get extra combo points on SS looks a bit steep.
Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.
Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.
Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.
Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.
Relentless Strikes - 1/1 points
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.
Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.
Vile Poisons - 1/5 points
Increases the damage dealt by your poisons by 3%.
Cold Blood - 1/1 points
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.
Combat Talents (8 points)
Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.
Improved Gouge - 3/3 points
Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 seconds.
Improved Backstab - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.
Subtlety Talents (22 points)
Camouflage - 5/5 points
Increases your speed while stealthed by 15%.
Master of Deception - 1/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode.
Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.
Improved Ambush - 2/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 30%.
Initiative - 4/5 points
Gives you a 60% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.
Improved Sap - 3/3 points
Adds a 90% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.
Improved Cheap Shot - 1/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot ability by 10.
Preparation - 1/1 points
When activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your other Rogue abilities.
For dagger rogues; best for PvP and group PvE. Open with Cheap Shot for quick 5 CB Eviscs. Blackened fucked around with this message on 01-11-2005 at 11:34 AM.
Beast Mastery:
Improved Aspect of the Hawk 5/5
Endurance Training 5/5
Unleashed Fury 5/5
Thick Hide 5/5
Marksmanship:
Improved Concussive Shot 5/5
Improved Hunter's Mark 5/5
Aimed Shot 1/1
Leathal Shots 5/5
Mortal Shots 5/5
Scatter Shot 1/1
Hawk Eye 3/3
Ranged Weapon Specialization 5/5
Trueshot Aura 1/1
quote:
ringringringringringringring Modphone
This looks like a good build, just one question: Why did you go for seal fate as a sword / mace user? Nine points (counting the four you had to dump into ruthlessness / relentless strikes to get there) for a base crit chance to get extra combo points on SS looks a bit steep.
I hit 18% crit easily, and honestly I've been happy with seal fate. I'm all about combo points... the faster I can get to a 1000+ crit (CB or not) eviscerate, the happier I am. Of course, when I respec at 60, I probably will drop seal fate, but for now I'm satisfied.
Combat Mastery
Improved Sinister Strike
Rank 2/2
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5.
Lightning Reflexes
Rank 5/5
Increases your Dodge chance by 5%.
Deflection
Rank 5/5
Increases your Parry chance by 5%.
Precision
Rank 5/5
Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.
Improved Evasion
Rank 2/2
Increases the effect duration of your Evasion ability by 4 secs.
Riposte
Rank 1/1
10 Energy 5 yd range
Instant 6 sec cooldown
A strike that becomes active after parrying an opponent's attack. This attack deals 150% weapon damage and disarms the target for 6 sec.
Dual Wield Specialization
Rank 5/5
Increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 50%.
Mace Specialization
Rank 5/5
Gives you a 6% chance to stun your target for 3 sec with a mace.
Blade Flurry
Rank 1/1
25 Energy
Instant 2 min cooldown
Requires Melee Weapon
Increases your attack speed by 20%. In addition, attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 15 sec.
Aggression
Rank 3/3
Increases the damage of your Sinister Strike and Eviscerate abilities by 6%.
Adrenaline Rush
Rank 1/1
Instant 6 min cooldown
Increases your Energy regeneration rate by 100% for 15 sec.
Combat Total: 35
Assassination Mastery
Malice
Rank 5/5
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.
Improved Slice and Dice
Rank 3/3
Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 45%.
Assassination Total: 8
Total
Total Points Spent: 43
Level Required: 52
Mainly for solo PvE. A mild respec could be possible on high levels for PvP. The plan is to stick to pretty much Sinister Strike and Slice and Dice to support Mace Mastery.
What I can't figure out is where to go with the last 8 points.
The seven points required to get Lethality 5/5 just for Sinister Strike seems like a huge waste. Ruthlessness/Relentless Strikes is a waste as I'm only really using Sinister Strike.
Improved Gouge seems like one of my better options, but I don't like it. Improved kick will end up getting picked for PvP if nothing else works better. And I'm not sure what the standing on the usefulness of Improved Sprint is. I can't see it making any sort of practical difference.
I'm currently leaning towards the Master of Deception 5/5 and Elusiveness 5/5, dropping two points of Lightning Reflexes to make up for the fact I only had 8 points to apply. Could drop a point of Aggression or Improved Evasion for Ghostly strike in this route as well.
quote:
Blackened had this to say about Cuba:
Assassination Talents (21 points)Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.Murder - 2/2 points
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 5%.Relentless Strikes - 1/1 points
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.Vile Poisons - 1/5 points
Increases the damage dealt by your poisons by 3%.Cold Blood - 1/1 points
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.Combat Talents (8 points)
Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.Improved Gouge - 3/3 points
Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 seconds.Improved Backstab - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.Subtlety Talents (22 points)
Camouflage - 5/5 points
Increases your speed while stealthed by 15%.Master of Deception - 1/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode.Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.Improved Ambush - 2/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 30%.Initiative - 4/5 points
Gives you a 60% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.Improved Sap - 3/3 points
Adds a 90% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.Improved Cheap Shot - 1/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot ability by 10.Preparation - 1/1 points
When activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your other Rogue abilities.For dagger rogues; best for PvP and group PvE. Open with Cheap Shot for quick 5 CB Eviscs.
Your build and your opening moves don't agree with each other. From looking at your build, I would have thought you were a backstab rogue....
Also in your subt talent tree I see that you're spread out a lot. Either go all out or don't put talents in them at all. Why would you only put 1 point in MoD?
quote:
Error's account was hax0red to write:
Your build and your opening moves don't agree with each other. From looking at your build, I would have thought you were a backstab rogue....Also in your subt talent tree I see that you're spread out a lot. Either go all out or don't put talents in them at all. Why would you only put 1 point in MoD?
Ambush is often not the best way to open a fight when grouped since you don't want to overagro early on, CS helps get the mob taunted and debuffed before it starts fighting back and the extra combo point is actually a decent amount of damage when working with CB.
A question black: Why did you pick ruthlessness and relentless strikes over IIP as a path to CB? I tested both and found the 50% increase in IP damage that IIP provides to be much more useful than the occasional boni to my evisc, is there some utility to it that I could be missing? Mod fucked around with this message on 01-12-2005 at 06:02 AM.
quote:PvP reasons. Getting 25 energy back on a 5 point combo in PvP effectively makes Evisc cost 10 energy instead of 35, and then there's the chance to get another combo. Also, with a 60% chance to get a combo point back you can spam Evisc instead of Sinister Strike, which can be in many cases more damaging (thanks to Lethality and Imp Evisc), costs 5 less energy, and also has a chance to restore 25.
How.... Mod.... uughhhhhh:
A question black: Why did you pick ruthlessness and relentless strikes over IIP as a path to CB? I tested both and found the 50% increase in IP damage that IIP provides to be much more useful than the occasional boni to my evisc, is there some utility to it that I could be missing?
