World of Warcraft
Pros:
-Blizzard has a great track record
-PvP is awesomeness
-Night Elves
Cons:
-Doesn't seem to have much customization with characters from first look. If someone can correct this for me, please do.
EverQuest 2
Pros:
-Customization is pretty appealing, and much, much more open-ended with races and classes than EQ1
-I'm more familiar with EQ Lore than Warcraft Lore
-Iksars
Con: Mayor of Townsville fucked around with this message on 10-31-2004 at 12:23 AM.
-SOE... doesn't have a great track record. Though, they've been wisening up a bit lately.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
quote:
Mayor of Townsville attempted to be funny by writing:
-SOE... doesn't have a great track record. Though, they've been wisening up a bit lately.
If whipping the game into a monty haul uberfest counts as wisening up, anyway.
quote:
Maho had this to say about Duck Tales:
EQ2 until WoW is released.
For all two weeks until WoW is released?
Then again, since we're looking at track records... 
Me, I'm getting EQ2 first for two reasons:
One: I have friends playing both games. I wuld get both eventually.
The big reason: I can catch up easier in WoW if i wait until christmas, but EQ2 will be harder to catch up in.
quote:
Maradon! had this to say about pies:
For all two weeks until WoW is released?Then again, since we're looking at track records...
I only say that because I preordered EQ2. I really must preorder WoW. After 15 minutes of drooling over the beta page, I can tell that WoW will be the addiction that supplants Ragnarok Online. Now how to overhaul my lame ass laptop so it'll play WoW properly...
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Cons:
-Doesn't seem to have much customization with characters from first look. If someone can correct this for me, please do.
EverQuest 2
Pros:
-Customization is pretty appealing, and much, much more open-ended with races and classes than EQ1---That's an understatement.
-I'm more familiar with EQ Lore than Warcraft Lore---EQ's lore is better, based on an overall world, not just some main characters.
-Iksars---...humans are better.
Con:
-SOE... doesn't have a great track record. Though, they've been wisening up a bit lately.
quote:
How.... Rodent King.... uughhhhhh:
EQ's lore is better, based on an overall world, not just some main characters.
On the contrary. There's a huge amount of great WoW lore that was barely touched at on most of the RTS games. Have you ever read the whole story about the golden titan Sargeras and the birth of the Burning Legion?
Have you read up on any of the lore of the Dragons and their role in the history of Azeroth? The original birth of the Well of Eternity, and the origins of the High Elves?
There's a ton of lore out there, and it's far more interesting than the EQ lore I've read. The reason you see so little of it is because the games have single-player storylines, which are more interesting when they have main characters. If it was an MMORPG at first, then it'd probably be the other way around.
Of course, I can always play both, nyahahaha!
quote:
Rodent King got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
World of Warcraft
Pros:
-Blizzard has a great track record---At RTS games, not sure on RPG's.
-PvP is awesomeness---I disagree, but we've had that thread already
-Night Elves---Against Dark Elves, Wood Elves? And High Elves? No. EQ inkies invented the bloo butt.
- Diablo, People are still playing this in droves.
- PvE gets treadmillboring
- Night Elves are Purple. EQ Dark Elves aren't even blue, they're Indigo
quote:
EverQuest 2
Pros:
-I'm more familiar with EQ Lore than Warcraft Lore---EQ's lore is better, based on an overall world, not just some main characters.
- What Khyron said. Skaw fucked around with this message on 10-31-2004 at 01:45 AM.
quote:
Khyron enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
On the contrary. There's a huge amount of great WoW lore that was barely touched at on most of the RTS games. Have you ever read the whole story about the golden titan Sargeras and the birth of the Burning Legion?Have you read up on any of the lore of the Dragons and their role in the history of Azeroth? The original birth of the Well of Eternity, and the origins of the High Elves?
There's a ton of lore out there, and it's far more interesting than the EQ lore I've read. The reason you see so little of it is because the games have single-player storylines, which are more interesting when they have main characters. If it was an MMORPG at first, then it'd probably be the other way around.
Yeah, EQ2's story line is pretty much: Everything in EQ with: Ogres became smarter, conquered froggies, went to war with pretty much everybody, went to moon to fight gods, moon blew up, moon blew Norrath up, now everyone is exploring new blown up lands on Norrath! If you actually want to, you can look at WoW's story line, which from what I've seen, has been really well done.
And for character customization: I like to look at it the way Barry Smith of InkTank does. In WoW, there may be several different pieces of armor that your character will actually want to wear, and your looks will differ depending on the armor you prefer. In EQ2, while you might be able to define the very small details of your face, chances are, no one is going to care if your nose is pointing up or down, but will look more at the gear you are wearing. And if you play your character well, you're going to look just like everyone else if you wear the best armor for your level.
Work on getting more pros/cons of each side. There are definately a lot more cons to SOE's department... As well as Blizzard's.
quote:
Blackened had this to say about John Romero:
Choose for your own reasons, not other's.Work on getting more pros/cons of each side. There are definately a lot more cons to SOE's department... As well as Blizzard's.
Blizzard Con:
Push back, Push back, Push back.
Look at the first Blizzard projected release date of Diablo II, then look at the actual one. Granted, it was worth the wait. 
SOE Con:
Release things before they're even remotely polished.
Just look at... everything? Skaw fucked around with this message on 10-31-2004 at 02:01 AM.
quote:
Willias had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
Since I can't edit my previous post: Another Pro for World of Warcraft is the very minimal death penalty. Either you can give up a bubble of exp or run back to your body and revive there. That's it, no penalty for running back to your body.
And EQ2 has a huge death penalty by comparison? 
Let's see...no loss of XP at all, only debt. Debt can be reduced by going to your body and recovering the spirit shard. Debt even goes away on its own over time if you haven't paid it off by killing things.
Oh...and BTW....OMG OMG OMG OLETHROS! OMG OMG OMG!!!
World of Warcraft
Pros:
-Quests, usually have awesome rewards, good money, and keep ya busy. They keep you going from place to place instead of camping mobs in a certain area.
-Items. Tons of different gear, tradeskills were balanced well in Stress Test and should be better now.
-Style. World of Warcraft's graphics rely heavily on a unique graphical style that make the game bright and colorful. Also, the usual Blizzard uniqueness is in the game, and parts are actually quite humorous.
-PvP.
-Packed with content. You have more content in a smaller area in WoW than you do in EQ2. Also, the game is quite a bit more linear, which helps during the lower levels.
-Lack of death penalty.
Cons:
-PvP and PvE MMORPG. They aren't easy to balance, period. Can Blizzard pull off a good balance in character classes for PvP and PvE?
-Leveling up is a bit too fast.
-Uh, thats all I can really think of, then again, I'm biased for WoW.
Everquest 2
Pros:
-Heroic Opportunity system.
-Very realistic graphics.
-Good balance for classes this time around.
-Tons of quests.
-Very fast paced combat.
Cons:
-Penalty sucks. Not only do you have to repair all of your gear after each death, then you have to go back, suffer a 2 minute revive sickness, get your spirit (until you get your spirit, your character is permanently weakened), then you also have experience debt to work off. BLECH.
-TOO MANY QUESTS. This game is TOO open. There is easily 60 or so quests for you to do in Freeport when you enter the city, and around 90 to do in Qeynos. Bad thing is, about 15% of these quests are "talk to npc" quests which are annoying as hell.
-Requires a very good computer, or you will be a laggy bish. (Note this could be a Pro for World of Warcraft. You don't need an awesomesauce computer for it.)
quote:
And EQ2 has a huge death penalty by comparison?Let's see...no loss of XP at all, only debt. Debt can be reduced by going to your body and recovering the spirit shard. Debt even goes away on its own over time if you haven't paid it off by killing things.
Oh...and BTW....OMG OMG OMG OLETHROS! OMG OMG OMG!!!
I. HATE. EXP DEBT. You want to punish me for death, take away some damn exp, but don't make it a pain in the ass to kill things until I get my spirit, and THEN give me fucking debt to go through after I get it back. Also, I don't like EQ2 for one other reason. Who's fucking idea was it to make EQ2 have zones the size of West Karana, and then do the thing where content is only in certain areas of the zone, while everything else is wide open and BORING.
Thats something I LIKED about WoW, you could run out in the middle of nowhere and be like "hay, theres a scorpion, and a pig, and a pig-man" or "hay, theres a raptor, and a zhevra, and some deer, and some centaur". Running around looking for stuff to kill is irritating, I want to play the damn game, not look around for a mob to kill so I can get another pixel of experience.
quote:
Let's not forget about the group exp death penalty. Or have they done away with that yet?
If you ungroup with people who have debt, then that debt is removed from your exp bar. Its a way of keeping priests and warriors (who happen to die a lot) from facing monstrous exp debt. Then again, if you group with some retard who dies all the time, then yeah, you're going to have an assload of debt to dig though to really gain experience.
quote:
Arrenn Lightblade probably says this to all the girls:
If I could try the character creator for EQ2, I might like it more. But I can't
Think of it this way: You can change your character's face to the exact way you like it, then pick from about 20 different hair styles, color your eyes, pick different facial features depending on what race you are, only to find out that 1) In game, no one really gets that close to your face to see how you changed it. 2) No one really gives a shit about how you look unless you make your self look as ugly as possible. And finally 3) Once you put a helmet on, your hair style complete vanishes from your character.
Skaw fucked around with this message on 10-31-2004 at 02:25 AM.
quote:
Skaw Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Exactly what the hell is Experience Debt? It just sounds like a vague shroud over regain timesink.
When you die, instead of losing any XP at all, you gain debt. When you gain experience, a portion goes towards paying off your debt, while the rest goes toward your level as per normal. Once the debt is paid up, you get full XP towards you level again.
A HUGE improvement over plain out losing XP. I'd rather gain a 1.5 bubbles of debt, than to lose 1.5 full bubbles and have to get it ALL back before even BEGINNING to put XP back towards my level.
quote:It's still the same thing, over time, much like Skaw said. Seems more like a tactic just to soften the blow of exp loss psychologically. Which, I admit, there's nothing too wrong with. But I certainly don't like people going around claiming that there's something different when it comes down to the hard numbers.
We were all impressed when Densetsu wrote:
A HUGE improvement over plain out losing XP.
Blackened fucked around with this message on 10-31-2004 at 02:42 AM.
It may be XP loss over time except...you don't LOSE anything. It just slows you down for a short while.
Your XP level doesn't stop increasing.
You can't lose levels.
How is it the same?
quote:Perhaps you mean, "How is it different?" And the answer is... In three ways, imo.
A sleep deprived Densetsu stammered:
How is it the same?
One: Psychologically.
Two: Marketing.*
Three: You don't lose levels. (Though that idea is wholly outdated now, as, afaik, not many new promising upcoming MMORPGs include this ideal)
*There is obviously an explaination behind this, but I honestly don't feel like typing it out, being the lazy bastard I am. I will, however, award ten points to whomever can figure out why I said that.
quote:
How.... Rodent King.... uughhhhhh:
I for one like experience loss in games, Makes it a good incentive to not die. Along with that, higher levels getting a higher % ressurection (Like EQ and FF11) Make a nice buffer. I'm fine with dying while in a group when I'll have a rez shortly after, but out on my own I'm very careful.
So what you're saying is that in such a system, pretty much there is no incentive to not die, there's just an incentive to harass some level 60 every time you do.
Which is why every EQ cleric over 45 is anon
quote:
There was much rejoicing when Rodent King said this:
I for one like experience loss in games, Makes it a good incentive to not die. Along with that, higher levels getting a higher % ressurection (Like EQ and FF11) Make a nice buffer. I'm fine with dying while in a group when I'll have a rez shortly after, but out on my own I'm very careful.
This is a foolish notion. How many of us have died to wandering mobs and stayed where we were because of it?
A harsh penalty for dying destroys the initiative to explore and increases stagnation and leads to problems with camping.
In MMOGs, death shouldn't be a huge penalty, more of an inconvenience. WoW has this down, pat. The higher your level, the further you have to run to get your stuff.
quote:
Mr. Parcelan had this to say about Robocop:
This is a foolish notion. How many of us have died to wandering mobs and stayed where we were because of it?A harsh penalty for dying destroys the initiative to explore and increases stagnation and leads to problems with camping.
In MMOGs, death shouldn't be a huge penalty, more of an inconvenience. WoW has this down, pat. The higher your level, the further you have to run to get your stuff.
You could call it a roleplaying thing then, I don't think it's smart to run into a new area alone where there may be stuff that'll kill me.
I disagree, death is something you don't want to happen to you right? Everything in life kinda goes downhill after death. Seems to me that a long run isn't a sufficient penalty for dying, how long are the runs anyway? Did they just make the tougher zones really far to get to?
quote:
Rodent King wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
You could call it a roleplaying thing then, I don't think it's smart to run into a new area alone where there may be stuff that'll kill me.I disagree, death is something you don't want to happen to you right? Everything in life kinda goes downhill after death. Seems to me that a long run isn't a sufficient penalty for dying, how long are the runs anyway? Did they just make the tougher zones really far to get to?
That, and wiping out (the whole party dying) in dungeons means you have to re-take the whole thing (without nameds, so no phat loot).
Much better than some archaic notion of penalizing you for exploring and playing the game.
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Mr. Parcelan was all like:
That, and wiping out (the whole party dying) in dungeons means you have to re-take the whole thing (without nameds, so no phat loot).Much better than some archaic notion of penalizing you for exploring and playing the game.
Now wait, that means that if one person dies, they've got to run back a possible 20-30 minute run? Even if they've got rezzers, what happens when they die? The whole group's forced to wait?
quote:
Check out the big brain on Rodent King!
Now wait, that means that if one person dies, they've got to run back a possible 20-30 minute run? Even if they've got rezzers, what happens when they die? The whole group's forced to wait?
No, you nitwit.
If someone dies and there is no rezzer, they run back to the instance (FYI, you gotta start at the beginning, so it can be tough).
If someone dies and there is a rezzer, they rez.
If everyone dies, they all run back and have to restart the instance.
So dying is worth avoiding, but not crippling.
quote:
Rodent King impressed everyone with:
So when the rezzer alone dies, the whole group is forced to fight back to the entrance without a healer to get the rezzer? Just making sure I understand this.
If the whole party wipes, the dungeon respawns. If one character dies and the rest are still alive, the instance is preserved and the others can truck back to their group.
quote:I'm pretty sure that's completely incorrect.
Mr. Parcelan enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
If the whole party wipes, the dungeon respawns. If one character dies and the rest are still alive, the instance is preserved and the others can truck back to their group.
