While the author goes over the top by quite a bit, and I really don't agree that we're seeing the birth of nazi america, I'm wondering if events like this will finally break the absurd idea that all media is liberally biased.
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Talonus obviously shouldn't have said:
I don't feel like registering to see the article, but I'll guess this about the "documentary" (its less of a documentary than a Michael Moore movie) that Sinclair was supposed to show. There was an outcry from viewers, the general public, and its stockholders. There's also a lawsuit over defamation of character for one person in the film. Its been pulled, and now only bits and pieces will be shown as part of another program that Sinclair will be showing about POWs. Not really an issue anymore.
How is it less a documentary than Moore's film? 
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage had this to say about Robocop:
How is it less a documentary than Moore's film?
He ment it's not so much a documentary as it is a Moore-esque propaganda film. JooJooFlop fucked around with this message on 10-22-2004 at 03:17 PM.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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JooJooFlop had this to say about pies:
You might wanna post the article itself.
Learn it. Live it. Love it.
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Blindy. wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
http://www.bugmenot.comLearn it. Live it. Love it.
Or you could post the article.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Posted on Sun, Oct. 17, 2004Fascism any day now?
By Molly Ivins
Creators Syndicate
Now is the time for all good men -- and women -- to race to the aid of their country. Liberals and libertarians, unite! The Sinclair Broadcasting Group has moved this election into the realm of creeping fascism, state propaganda, Big Brother and brainwashing.What, me hyperbole?
This is so simple -- how would you conservatives feel if NBC, CBS or ABC decided to pre-empt prime-time programming a week before the election to air Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 -- and then announced, "But we've offered President Bush a chance to reply"?
Sinclair also has offered Bush the inestimable service of diverting attention from his record and is using our publicly owned airwaves to do it.
For Sinclair's lobbyist and on-air editorialist Mark Hyman to claim that this long attack ad (Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal) is "news" is ludicrous -- almost as strained as his claim that those who disagree are like "Holocaust deniers."
Sinclair is the perfect example of what's wrong with the concentration of ownership in media: Just a few companies now own almost all the major information outlets. Sinclair is the largest owner of local TV stations in the nation. It controls 62 stations in 39 markets and reaches at least 25 percent of Americans every day, all day.
When Sinclair bought a second station in Pittsburgh, it sold its existing station to the first station's manager, an employee of Sinclair, on favorable terms and then proceeded to operate both.
It repeated this trick at least twice and then used a new one: The president of Sinclair had his mother "buy" the new station. The new corporation's stock was 70 percent owned by his mother and the same station manager, who then transferred control of these stations to Sinclair.
Sinclair's management has contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars almost entirely to Republicans (97 percent this year) as it has continued to lobby for looser ownership rules. The Bush administration is pushing aggressively to remove those same rules.
The producer of the alleged "documentary," which is actually just a very long Swift Boat Liars ad, makes the same arguments and features some of the same people as the thoroughly discredited short ads.
Carlton Sherwood, the ad's producer, was part of a Gannett team that won the Pulitzer Prize for investigative reporting in 1980, but he has since moved far to the right and away from anything resembling actual journalism.
In 1986, he joined The Washington Times, a right-wing daily owned by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon. In 1991, he wrote the book Inquisition: The Persecution and Prosecution of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon, defending the self-described "Son of God."
Sherwood then went to work for then-Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge, now homeland security director for Bush.
I have not seen Sherwood's ad. I am relying on press reports that its central thesis is that John Kerry's congressional testimony in 1971 prolonged the Vietnam War.
Sure, the North Vietnamese would have surrendered long before they never did if it hadn't have been for Kerry. Look, 14,000 more Americans died after his testimony -- how many would it take to make that war anything other than a mistaken horror?
The ad also alleges that Kerry impugned the good names of all those who served in Vietnam. That is not only false but malicious.
I heard his testimony at the time and have reviewed it since during this campaign. It is honorable and patriotic. I am also familiar with the Winter Soldier hearings on which his testimony was partly based, and they were just as he reported.
I am sick of the right wing claiming patriotism as its exclusive purview. No one serves this country well who blindly supports misbegotten wars in the name of patriotism.
The right to dissent is one of the founding principles of this country and is in itself a high form of patriotism. What you owe your country is your best evaluation of whether we are or are not going in the right direction.
As Huey P. Long once said, "Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised as 100 percent Americanism."
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Bloodsage enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
Or you could post the article.
Someone got banned last week for making an internet faux paux of posting a link to a file someone said they didn't want posted out side a forum. I'm not posting a copywritten work outside of the source to detract from this website's ad revenue. Use bug me not.
Or wait for someone else to do it, like joojooflop. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 10-22-2004 at 03:25 PM.
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Azakias had this to say about (_|_):
Eh... whats the point in posting an article thread, then saying "Register before you can can read it!"
Seriously. It takes 3 seconds. Less if you have Firefox or Internet Explorer and install the extension. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 10-22-2004 at 03:27 PM.
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Blindy. had this to say about (_|_):
Someone got banned last week for making an internet faux paux of posting a link to a file someone said they didn't want posted out side a forum. I'm not posting a copywritten work outside of the source to detract from this website's ad revenue. Use bug me not.Or wait for someone else to do it, like joojooflop.
Just admit you're lazy, dude; don't try to make it sound all noble.
Posting the article is not the same as stealing someone's bandwidth. If you want to discuss something, don't expect others to go out of their way to find it; that's just common courtesy.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
Just admit you're lazy, dude; don't try to make it sound all noble.Posting the article is not the same as stealing someone's bandwidth. If you want to discuss something, don't expect others to go out of their way to find it; that's just common courtesy.
Yes, this is most certianly on the topic of this political thread and within the tag guidelines.
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Blindy. Model 2000 was programmed to say:
Yes, this is most certianly on the topic of this political thread and within the tag guidelines.
Please don't quote rules when you know you're wrong in the first place.
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How.... Bloodsage.... uughhhhhh:
How is it less a documentary than Moore's film?
Yeah, what Joojoo said. Plus, Moore's does most of his lying through editing. The documentary makers pretty much lies, not even bothering to go for a Moore editing hackjob. That's the reason for the defamation of character suit, which you can find more info at here. (Sorry, no better link. Most of the info I've heard was over the radio.) There's also at least one other lawsuit over it as well.
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Check out the big brain on Talonus!
Yeah, what Joojoo said. Plus, Moore's does most of his lying through editing. The documentary makers pretty much lies, not even bothering to go for a Moore editing hackjob. That's the reason for the defamation of character suit, which you can find more info at here. (Sorry, no better link. Most of the info I've heard was over the radio.) There's also at least one other lawsuit over it as well.
I'm pretty sure the defamation lawsuit was based upon taking quotations out of context, which is exactly the same thing Moore did.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Molly Ivans was naked while typing this:
Now is the time for all good men -- and women -- to race to the aid of their country. Liberals and libertarians, unite! The Sinclair Broadcasting Group has moved this election into the realm of creeping fascism, state propaganda, Big Brother and brainwashing.
How is this State Propaganda? Is Sinclair owned by the government or something?
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Bloodsage attempted to be funny by writing:
I'm pretty sure the defamation lawsuit was based upon taking quotations out of context, which is exactly the same thing Moore did.
Have the swift boat vets managed to produce any evidence to support any of their claims?
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ACES! Another post by Iulius Czar:
How is this State Propaganda? Is Sinclair owned by the government or something?
She's making the unbased assumption that because sinclair donates 97% of their political donations to the GOP, they would have GOP backing and assistance in creating this document.
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Blindy.'s fortune cookie read:
Have the swift boat vets managed to produce any evidence to support any of their claims?
Some of them, yes. In about the same ratio as Moore; most is innuendo and outright lies, but there are things that may be construed in differing ways.
The most damning for Kerry is the famous events "seared" into his memory Christmas of 1968 when he claims he was in Cambodia being shot at by the Khmer Rouge. Only problem is, no swift boats were ever in Cambodia (it was actually forbidden for them to go there), and the Khmer Rouge hadn't taken the field in 1968. When the memory he alleges made him question the war is obviously made up. . .it's not a good thing.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
I'm pretty sure the defamation lawsuit was based upon taking quotations out of context, which is exactly the same thing Moore did.
If it's the one I'm thinking about, the guy sueing is shown on some old footage of a Vietnam protest rally while the narrator says that many protesters never served in the military and faked their claimed experiences. He felt this was implying he was guilty of such an act when the guy did serve and has several awards and all sorts of records to prove it.
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JooJooFlop stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
If it's the one I'm thinking about, the guy sueing is shown on some old footage of a Vietnam protest rally while the narrator says that many protesters never served in the military and faked their claimed experiences. He felt this was implying he was guilty of such an act when the guy did serve and has several awards and all sorts of records to prove it.
Hmm. Article I read the other day had him claiming he was being taken out of context.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
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Bloodsage thought about the meaning of life:
The most damning for Kerry is the famous events "seared" into his memory Christmas of 1968 when he claims he was in Cambodia being shot at by the Khmer Rouge. Only problem is, no swift boats were ever in Cambodia (it was actually forbidden for them to go there), and the Khmer Rouge hadn't taken the field in 1968. When the memory he alleges made him question the war is obviously made up. . .it's not a good thing.
I believe he exaggerated and was probably just next to the Cambodian boarder and took fire from an unidentified enemy while there. It kinda reminds me of a speech Dick Cheney once made where he talks about when he flew over Arlington National Cemetery in a helecopter and its "crosses row on row." All but maybe a scattered few of graves in Arlington are marked with rectangular headstones, not crosses. Was he lying about having flown over the cemetery, or was he just exaggerating for the sake of sounding more impressive?
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Blindy. was listening to Cher while typing:
She's making the unbased assumption that because sinclair donates 97% of their political donations to the GOP, they would have GOP backing and assistance in creating this document.
Even if the program were entirely produced by the Republican Party, nobody is holding Sinclair's collective feet to the fire to broadcast it. Considering where their contributions go, it's not a stretch to say they want to show it. I have a hard time calling an independent broadcaster's programming choices "fascist". Biased? Absolutely--and more than likely in violation of FCC's "equal time" rules. But it's no more State Propaganda then Fahrenheit 911.
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Bloodsage's fortune cookie read:
Hmm. Article I read the other day had him claiming he was being taken out of context.
Well, I suppose having a guy narrate over footage of you claiming something about various people that isn't true about you could qualify as having your appearence on film being taken out of context.
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ACES! Another post by Bloodsage:
Hmm. Article I read the other day had him claiming he was being taken out of context.
According to the article I posted,
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Kenneth J. Campbell, now a professor at the University of Delaware, said in the suit that "Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal" combines footage of him appearing at a 1971 war protest with a voice-over that claims that many of the supposed veterans who took part in the event were later "discovered as frauds" who "never set foot on the battlefield, or left the comfort of the States, or even served in uniform."The suit said viewers would be left with the perception that Campbell had lied about his military service and encouraged others to make up stories about war atrocities.
Campbell attached copies of his military records to the suit, showing that he received the Purple Heart medal and eight other medals, ribbons and decorations for his service as an artillery forward observer in Vietnam in 1968 and 1969.
To me, it seemed like they were outright lying about him and his record. That's the reason I say they're worse than Moore. Not saying Moore is good, just that they're worse. My original comment was really just meant to show that the "documentary" was really just an opinion piece.
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Iulius Czar had this to say about Captain Planet:
Even if the program were entirely produced by the Republican Party, nobody is holding Sinclair's collective feet to the fire to broadcast it. Considering where their contributions go, it's not a stretch to say they want to show it. I have a hard time calling an independent broadcaster's programming choices "fascist". Biased? Absolutely--and more than likely in violation of FCC's "equal time" rules. But it's no more State Propaganda then Fahrenheit 911.
While i agree with you on all points, people knew what fahrenheit 9/11 was going into it. they had to drive to a theater and pay to see it.
This was supposed to be posed as a documentary on telivision. That lends it more credibility than fahrenheit 9/11 in the public eye, i think.
