(When I say Obese, I do NOT mean overweight. Overweight refers to an excess of body weight compared to set standards. The excess weight may come from muscle, bone, fat, and/or body water. Obesity refers specifically to having an abnormally high proportion of body fat. A person can be overweight without being obese, as in the example of a bodybuilder or other athlete who has a lot of muscle.)
Obesity rates are rising. They're rising fairly quickly, too... In 1991, four states had obesity rates of 15 percent or higher, and none had obesity rates above 16 percent. By 2000, every state except Colorado had obesity rates of 15 percent or more, and 22 states had obesity rates of 20 percent or more.
Obesity is unhealthy as hell, it puts you at higher risk for heart attacks and strokes, and is associated with all sorts of bad mojo.
Now, my questions for you all to discuss :
#1 - Do you think that obesity is something that's actually to be concerned about, or do you think it's simply being blown out of proportion by the media?
#2 - How concerned do you think people should be about this issue compared to others? Are too few people really concerned with it? Are too many people concerned about this when they should be concerned about other things?
#3 - What do you think is contributing to obesity today? Is it fast food? Is it genetics? Is it just lack of self-control? Is it some general stupidity settling into the populace? Is it environmental? Let us know!
#4 - Do you think that it's a large enough health risk or large enough risk for the government to step in and start aid programs for obese people? (Note : I don't mean making laws against people becoming obese, I mean like setting up clinics where you can go in and get advise and assistane with diets, exercise regimes, etc.)
----
I'll be posting my own thoughts and feelings later in this thread, probably when I get home and can organise my thoughts and put 'em all in here at once. Until then, I'd like for you all to respond in kind. Since I'm asking for opinions here, I'd appreciate it if it was kept flame-free. Khyron fucked around with this message on 07-21-2004 at 01:59 PM.
It is something to be concerned about for the people that are obese. It can, and usually does, cause health issues later in life. The media is blowing it a bit out of proportion, true, but it is becoming something americans need to be concerned about
#2 - How concerned do you think people should be about this issue compared to others?
It is a fairly important health issue, as it can lead to many other health problems that are worse than just being overweight.
#3 - What do you think is contributing to obesity today? Is it fast food? Is it genetics? Is it just lack of self-control? Is it some general stupidity settling into the populace? Is it environmental? Let us know!
It differs from person to person. There are some people who it may very well be a genetic people with. But in many cases, it is due to the rushed american lifestyle -- food fast, who cares if its healthy. Don't have time to exercise, have to sit at a desk all day. It is more the lack of exercise among many people than anything else that causes this -- my brother can eat 3 times what I do at fast food places near daily, and he is 6 foot tall and 170 pounds. He cannot put weight on no matter what he does. He plays alot of baseball, though, so he burns what he eats. So, I'm gonna put my money on the "lack of exercise" being one of the leading causes. We've moved to a service industry based economy as opposed to ne that had people doing more manual labor intensive jobs. So, there is less exercise in daily activities.
#4 - Do you think that it's a large enough health risk or large enough risk for the government to step in and start aid programs for obese people? (Note : I don't mean making laws against people becoming obese, I mean like setting up clinics where you can go in and get advise and assistane with diets, exercise regimes, etc.)
They already have these. They're called health clubs. They are open to people for a fairly low cost when you really think about it. If the government were to fund something like this, they'd have to go about it carefully -- obesity isn't something that can be cured with just a pill, but requires a general change in the person's lifestyle. So, it may end up that taxpayer dollars end up being wasted on people who don't stick to recommended changes and such.
I don't feel that the media is blowing it too far out of proportion, it is a problem for a significan number of people.
The reasons I see are that we are living in a service society, ie: having the maid come in and cleaning house, driving a block to go somewhere instead of walking, etc.
I also attribute it to the general fact that we are making machines to do the work that we used to do.
Overal, the population of the U.S. that's obese is just plain lazy, I'm not saying everyone, just most.
There are some though that are genetically disposed to it. I have no evidence to prove either side of the aisle on this point though, just more of an educatued guess here.
I feel that the governement isn't needed yet, but once it gets over say 30% nationally, then they should get in, mainly because one third of the population are causing a hazard to themselves, which in fact could cause a hazard to others.
quote:
Khyron had this to say about John Romero:
#3 - What do you think is contributing to obesity today? Is it fast food? Is it genetics? Is it just lack of self-control? Is it some general stupidity settling into the populace? Is it environmental? Let us know!
Primary problem is a lack of education from Kindergarten on up about the proper diet backed by a lack of research and information about what a proper diet consists of. Some of the other problems you mention can come into play, but the root is education.
Right now its a concern, something that sticks in the back of your head but doesn't really mean anything. Right now. If it remains that, then there's no real problem, but there's nothing showing that the figures won't keep rising like they do. Unfortunately, this is a personal choice issue, and I've heard way too many fat figures all over the scale to really pick one as the right one, so I don't know how concerned to be. Eh.
#2 - How concerned do you think people should be about this issue compared to others? Are too few people really concerned with it? Are too many people concerned about this when they should be concerned about other things?
Its worrying, but its one of the least of our problems. Its still a problem, but on the Grand Scale, not a really big one.
#3 - What do you think is contributing to obesity today? Is it fast food? Is it genetics? Is it just lack of self-control? Is it some general stupidity settling into the populace? Is it environmental? Let us know!
Lifestyle. Its relatively easy, almost TOO easy to obtain foods that are very high in fat. Lots of fast-food places are extremely unhealthy, and those are the places that advertise the most and are the hugest. Also, the poorer you are, the worse you tend to eat, as the cheap foods tend to be high in fat as well. It is actually more expensive to try to eat healthy than it is not to, not to mention much more difficult, not only in self-control but in a societal sense. No one wants to be the one kid who doesn't buy something from the ice cream truck. No one wants to be the one guy who only orders coffee when they go out to eat with their friends. A lot of places are beginning to offer health-conscious meals, and this is a good thing as some of them are actually quite good, but for the most part, it's just too damn difficult to not be fat.
There's also a different issue here. While the obesity rates are rising, and fat people are becoming more common, its still drilled into your head from youth that fatness = extremely ugly. People who are, say, overweight from childhood tend to develop personalities that mirror this thought, and tend to have a fatalistic way of thinking. They're never going to break it, they might as well not try. They're ugly anyway, why put any effort into it. A lot of fat people I know, myself included, have massive self-esteem issues, and this in turn makes the weight problem that much worse. Sweet foods are comfort foods, and if a person thinks they're ugly and a sort of modern-day, pot-bellied Quasimodo, there's no real impetus for them to try, even if they COULD succeed and reach that ideal of beauty they have for themselves.
#4 - Do you think that it's a large enough health risk or large enough risk for the government to step in and start aid programs for obese people? (Note : I don't mean making laws against people becoming obese, I mean like setting up clinics where you can go in and get advise and assistane with diets, exercise regimes, etc.)
Oh hell yes. People have said it before me and I say it now: Fat people are the only people you are still allowed to discriminate against. Call a black person a grandma, you get gang beat; call a fat person a fucking slob, you get laughed with. What I said about self-esteem above doesn't just pop out of thin air, and often begins from childhood. Overweight people are outcast, and tend to think society has no place for someone as "ugly" as them - and in most cases, the people around them, fat or thin, believe this too, and do nothing to help the overweight person and a LOT to hinder them. Anything that people in authority can do to end this is something I'll be happy with. While I do consider myself as having a strong personality (Charisma Nicole, as I put it), I still do have those self-esteem issues myself. The only difference is that I really AM ugly 
.
Another facet of this is that overweight people don't like to talk about it. Don't like to go to health places, don't like to go to gyms, don't like to purchase workout equipment or health food, because it feels like they're just advertising "HEY! LOOK! I'M A FUCKING FATSO! COME MOCK ME AND KICK ME IN MY ROTUND LITTLE ASS!", even if they're doing it as discreetly as possible. We like to sit at home, do as little as possible, eat as unhealthily as we always do, and stay the FUCK away from where people can see us. Someplace where there's no pressure, no fear, not even a CHANCE of someone degrading you about or hurting you for your weight... I think that's someplace that's needed, and a definite first step on the road to recovery for most people.
Of course, a lot of this is using my own experience as a guide.
Now I answer poll!
#1 - Do you think that obesity is something that's actually to be concerned about, or do you think it's simply being blown out of proportion by the media?
Yes, there's likely a concern. My grandmother had a lot of heart problems and was probably in the obese range. My dad is likely also in the obese range, and it'd be nice to see him get rid of it before he develops heart problems.
#2 - How concerned do you think people should be about this issue compared to others? Are too few people really concerned with it? Are too many people concerned about this when they should be concerned about other things?
Meh. It's something that can be worked against. We shouldn't be waving fat foods in everyone's faces, but besides that, I think it's up to the individual. People should be aware of the consequences of their actions, though.
#3 - What do you think is contributing to obesity today? Is it fast food? Is it genetics? Is it just lack of self-control? Is it some general stupidity settling into the populace? Is it environmental? Let us know!
A lot of people are weak and lack the discipline to better themselves. They get stuck in some kind of cycle and can't lose much weight. I don't think it's genetic, but it can travel through families; if your parents cooked a lot of greasy/fatty foods when you were a child, you'll probably like them, and it can go from there.
#4 - Do you think that it's a large enough health risk or large enough risk for the government to step in and start aid programs for obese people? (Note : I don't mean making laws against people becoming obese, I mean like setting up clinics where you can go in and get advise and assistane with diets, exercise regimes, etc.)
No. Fatness is not addicting. Waisz fucked around with this message on 07-21-2004 at 03:21 PM.
No, I'm not going to blame anyone by myself for how I got this way.
But, as it is, I do the complete oposite of over eat... Which is in and of itself unhealthy and does inhibit me being able to lose weight.
So don't go thinking all weight gain is from over eating.
I do take walks, I do do excersize... It's hard when you do it alone, especialy when you hate being alone all the time. Moral support accually helps alot more then some people give it credit. But my huge problem is going days without eating... But that there is a mental problem. I *hate* eating.
I would say it's being blown somewhat out of proportion though, a person who has somewhat of a gut is not automatically surrendering himself to death by pork poisoning and a woman who starts gaining some weight with age does not need to be rushed into a hospital for emergency lipo.
Goverment should not be there to provide everyone with their own personal trainer, maybe hand out free guides to healthy cooking and cheap excercise or pay a few experts to set up a website but nothing more. The exception is the minority of people who are obese to the point where they have turned into hahphazardly walking trafic hazards made of ham, I'd count those as disabled even if their condition is completely their fault, we don't deny wheelchairs to people who broke their legs while skiing either.
There are a ton of people who are concerned to the point of constantly whining about their weight but very few who actually do anything about it.
I won't even pretend to know the key to losing weight, especially in very obese situations. Yes, there does need to be more than self discipline. I think a clinic for this kind of situation is a good idea, just not a government sponsered one.
The real trick is obviously stopping obesity before it starts. A lot of our society now involves sitting. A lot of kids hate exercise... why? I don't really have a solution for that.
Come to think of it, I should have shut my mouth before I came into this thread to start with. Ah, oh well.
If it is, I'll take glucophage, go on a low-carb diet, and exercise.
If it's not, I'll stay on my 'eating better' diet, and excercise.
lost 24 lbs thus far.
I get sick to death of people saying they have a medical excuse for eating too much. That's like a crack addict saying they have a medical excuse for being a drug addict. People notice when they're gaining massive amounts of weight. At a certain point, it does spiral out of control (at a certain size you can't move your fat ass TO exercise), but 99% of people who say they have a glandular condition or whatever don't.
I'm a chubby, fat, round boy because I eat and don't exercise enough. Simple formula. My sister got to the size she was because she ate, didn't get enough exercise. The difference between the two of us is that Jaja didn't realize until it was too late that she was really screwed. When you're too overweight to get around your trailer effectively, when you're so heavy you have to lean on a table to get up and you bend the table, it's too late. Then Jaja had to get her body's functions SURGICALLY ALTERED to compensate for her inability to control herself. And now the weight is coming off.
But ultimately, the state she was in and the state I am in are, for better or worse, our own creations.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about the Spice Girls:
*stuff*
Well said. The ultimate reason people are fat is because they choose to not notice, for whatever reason, the choices *they* make and then those choices start compounding to become a problem that's a real bitch to solve.
It's a real shocker, but just coming around and going, "What the fuck I am doing?" and then beginning the process of changing your habits works pretty damn well.
I agree with Falaanla that a lack of exercise is a major contributing factor. I picked up a gym membership about 2 weeks before seeing my doctor, and even though he advised changing my diet, I haven't. Instead, I've been putting in 3-4 days per week at the gym. Once I built up my endurance, I could spend an hour walking on the treadmill to kill a nice 450 calories, then shift to the weights to build muscle mass. I've been getting back in shape, and losing weight slowly for the past few weeks, without needing to change my eating habits.
The biggest problem (which has also been said already) is that life has become all about hurry-up-and-wait. Wake up early, rush out to work, sit at a desk for 8+ hours, run errands, wait on lines, go home, eat, crash. There's not much time for outdoor recreation, and gyms cost $500-1000 per year (unless you sign up on a gimmick deal). Check the descriptions on most fad diets, and you'll notice the words, "With proper exercise." Taking in less calories won't help unless you can burn off what you do take in, and if you eat nothing at all, it leads to vitamin deficiencies.
#1 - Do you think that obesity is something that's actually to be concerned about, or do you think it's simply being blown out of proportion by the media?
Some of both. Actually being spherical is a significant problem. Too much extra weight leads to heart & circulation problems, failure of support muscles (back problems, weak knees, etc), and many other medical conditions. Then there's the general inconvenience of not being able to get around. Truly obese people often can't take care of themselves, and many have little or no hope of recovery without major assistance.
On the other hand, the media does blow it out of proportion, and that in itself makes the problem worse. As Nicole said, telling someone they're obese is a major jab at their self esteem, causing them to dig themselves in deeper. Telling everyone, "You're all fat!" won't motivate anybody. People who are fat already know it, they don't need a finger in their faces saying, "It's all your fault, fatty!"
#2 - How concerned do you think people should be about this issue compared to others? Are too few people really concerned with it? Are too many people concerned about this when they should be concerned about other things?
I think the issue of people being overweight isn't too important. However, the issue of how hard it is to stop being overweight needs attention. See question 4.
#3 - What do you think is contributing to obesity today? Is it fast food? Is it genetics? Is it just lack of self-control? Is it some general stupidity settling into the populace? Is it environmental? Let us know!
Fast food contributes only in that it's there. People choose to eat it or not. The problem is that everyone's rushed to be somewhere, do something, stand on line, sit at a desk, basically, hurry up and wait. There's no time to eat better, and no opportunity to burn off the calories. Fad diets come and go, usually backfiring because they require a complete change in lifestyle to work properly. People just don't have time to stay healthy, or to get healthy. Many of them suffer from stress as well.
#4 - Do you think that it's a large enough health risk or large enough risk for the government to step in and start aid programs for obese people? (Note : I don't mean making laws against people becoming obese, I mean like setting up clinics where you can go in and get advise and assistane with diets, exercise regimes, etc.)
I think free clinics with gym equipment (especially treadmills) would be a big help. People could go in, give their drivers' licenses, sign waivers (no suing the facility, no breaking equipment, etc), and work out for half an hour. For extremely heavy people, the issue becomes more about medical insurance coverage. Both private and public insurance have fallen short on weight-control coverage, making it cheaper and easier for obese people to deal with medical problems caused by obesity than to actually solve their weight problems.
Obese people bother me the same way smokers do. Essentially, obesity is the smoking of our generation.
Once the warning signs start flaring up from childhood till you die, it'll drop down again. It's a continual process of ironing out our welfare society's little quirks like that.
quote:
We were all impressed when Khyron wrote:
I'd like to start a discussion regarding Obesity. Why? Because I am bored, and I like seeing everyone's thoughts and opinions on various subjects(When I say Obese, I do NOT mean overweight. Overweight refers to an excess of body weight compared to set standards. The excess weight may come from muscle, bone, fat, and/or body water. Obesity refers specifically to having an abnormally high proportion of body fat. A person can be overweight without being obese, as in the example of a bodybuilder or other athlete who has a lot of muscle.)
Obesity rates are rising. They're rising fairly quickly, too... In 1991, four states had obesity rates of 15 percent or higher, and none had obesity rates above 16 percent. By 2000, every state except Colorado had obesity rates of 15 percent or more, and 22 states had obesity rates of 20 percent or more.
Obesity is unhealthy as hell, it puts you at higher risk for heart attacks and strokes, and is associated with all sorts of bad mojo.
Now, my questions for you all to discuss :#1 - Do you think that obesity is something that's actually to be concerned about, or do you think it's simply being blown out of proportion by the media?
#2 - How concerned do you think people should be about this issue compared to others? Are too few people really concerned with it? Are too many people concerned about this when they should be concerned about other things?
#3 - What do you think is contributing to obesity today? Is it fast food? Is it genetics? Is it just lack of self-control? Is it some general stupidity settling into the populace? Is it environmental? Let us know!
#4 - Do you think that it's a large enough health risk or large enough risk for the government to step in and start aid programs for obese people? (Note : I don't mean making laws against people becoming obese, I mean like setting up clinics where you can go in and get advise and assistane with diets, exercise regimes, etc.)
----
I'll be posting my own thoughts and feelings later in this thread, probably when I get home and can organise my thoughts and put 'em all in here at once. Until then, I'd like for you all to respond in kind. Since I'm asking for opinions here, I'd appreciate it if it was kept flame-free.
3. I would say it is the cumulative effect of a number of factors. For some it's a genetic disorder. But for most it is a mix of a lack of personal responsibility, (and for the young, a lack of parental responsibility, and a duty of care problem from the schools) an issue of exercise, an issue of the toxic nature of fast foods, their availability, so-on so-forth. Not so much stupidity as apathy and laziness. Fast food is convenient. Taking the elevator is convenient, as is driving the hundred metres to the shops instead of walking it. It has a big cumulative effect.
1. Obesity is definately a problem to be concerned about. It's up there with the big ones like smoking as one of the leading causes of the massive (oho) numbers of preventable deaths. It's concerning because it is on the rise, and rising fast, and it is concerning because it is often beginning in very young children.
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Knight Rider:
...Then Jaja had to get her body's functions SURGICALLY ALTERED to compensate for her inability to control herself. And now the weight is coming off.
And I am looking smashing if I do say so myself!
#1 - Do you think that obesity is something that's actually to be concerned about, or do you think it's simply being blown out of proportion by the media?
Yes and No. I think the media is blowing it way out of proportion but that's only because everyone seems to have been walking around with blinders on until recently. It is a concern and it should be researched/discussed. My only real problem with the media coverage is that it still seems like everyone is looking for a quick fix to their weight issues.
#2 - How concerned do you think people should be about this issue compared to others? Are too few people really concerned with it? Are too many people concerned about this when they should be concerned about other things?
I think everyone should be concerned with it, but not go mental over it either. Weight effects everyone, be it with eating disorders or over eating, whatever. I think most people are generally concerned, though.
#3 - What do you think is contributing to obesity today? Is it fast food? Is it genetics? Is it just lack of self-control? Is it some general stupidity settling into the populace? Is it environmental? Let us know!
People are lazy plain and simple. Kids today are becoming less involved with physical activity and more involved in tv and video games. Adults are working longer hours at desks and are picking up dinner from a fast food restaurant on the way home. Granted many fast food places are producing healthy items on their menus, it's not enough. Some people generally do have weight problems due to genetics, but I feel the majority is just lazy.
#4 - Do you think that it's a large enough health risk or large enough risk for the government to step in and start aid programs for obese people? (Note : I don't mean making laws against people becoming obese, I mean like setting up clinics where you can go in and get advise and assistane with diets, exercise regimes, etc.)
Honestly I really think the gov't should be setting up programs for obese people. Do you have any idea how much it costs out of pocket to see a dietitician if you have no insurance coverage? And lets not even start on memberships to a work-out facility. Everything costs a pretty penny.
But weight isn't really an exact science. Yes, calories in must be > calories out to gain weight, and the reverse must be true to lose weight. But how our bodies use calories and need calories isn't always that simple. They're rare (much rarer than some people would have you believe), but glandular conditions do exist. Hypo/hyperthyroidism affects how many calories your body uses. Diabetes can, also, cause rapid weight loss or weight gain. Many medications affect your body's desire to eat, and some will effect your body's metabolism as well (I know this girl who must have gained 100 pounds in a week after being placed on a medication for Crone's disease). You can't just look at somebody who's fat and assume they're some kind of unhealthy slob, because a few really try.
Anyway, I'm kinda rambling and I didn't even answer the questions. I guess I will later. Suddar fucked around with this message on 07-24-2004 at 11:56 AM.
quote:
Jajahotep obviously shouldn't have said:
And I am looking smashing if I do say so myself!
How much have you lost? ^.^ Are you feeling okay after the surgery?
Regarding food as an addiction... I think it can be an addiction for sure! I mean, my sister who is overweight (in the fat sense, but not big enough to be considered "obese".. She's about 230 at 5'4). She'll go and eat dinner, then after that open up a bag of chips. I don't think she sees the fact that she could just as easily grab an apple from the fridge.
Really, I'm the only one in my family who's making an effort to get in shape. Yesterday, I speed walked for 20 minutes (then my old dog got tired so I had to take him back) and then I went out again at night with my dad (who should be walking for his heart) and speed walked for another hour. I try now to walk at least 20minutes speed walking each day.
This is ontop of the weight training that I do every night as well. 100 sit-ups, 40 reps of leg resistance excercises, then anywhere from 30mins-2 hours of arm exercises.. On average, I do about an hour of those.. Depends on if I forget if I'm doing them or not. o_O
It might not be "a lot" in some peoples standards, but at least it's something. I'm finding myself counting calories and crap too. o_O Last night I NEEDED that walk cause I had pizza for dinner and felt gross.
I'm getting a bit obessive, but I hate how I look, so I want to change that. 
quote:
Ares thought about the meaning of life:
How much have you lost? ^.^ Are you feeling okay after the surgery?
40 pounds since July 1st, 83 since May 
I'm feeling great! I had my filter removed on Thursday so I should be done with any and all surgeries now.
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Jajahotep said:
40 pounds since July 1st, 83 since MayI'm feeling great! I had my filter removed on Thursday so I should be done with any and all surgeries now.
That's great news Jaja! 
How's your strength and stuff? Are you able to pick up stuff?
quote:
Ares thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
That's great news Jaja!How's your strength and stuff? Are you able to pick up stuff?
Thank you Strength is good. I can do everything I did before surgery and more. I am going to start weightlifting soon so I can tone my arms and such. 
quote:
Check out the big brain on Ares!
How much have you lost? ^.^ Are you feeling okay after the surgery?
Regarding food as an addiction... I think it can be an addiction for sure! I mean, my sister who is overweight (in the fat sense, but not big enough to be considered "obese".. She's about 230 at 5'4). She'll go and eat dinner, then after that open up a bag of chips. I don't think she sees the fact that she could just as easily grab an apple from the fridge.
Wait. . .5-foot four, 230lb isn't obese? I'm fairly sure being more than 100lb overweight counts as obese, if not--quite--morbidly so.
And why, oh why do people call everything an addiction these days? Food cannot be an addiction. Everyone who thinks it can, please go look up the difference between an addiction and obsessive/compulsive behavior. They seem similar from the outside, but are, in fact, opposites.
In an addiction, the substance is at fault. With compulsive behavior, there is a problem with the person.
Too many people blame addiction because it's an easy way to shirk responsibility for their actions.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
Jaja's dropped some serious weight since the surgery. Like...20-40 lbs. You can see it in her face especially. Plus her color's healthier.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
I never realized how sickly I looked. I guess you get a certain image of yourself in your mind and it is never bad.
I saw video of myself from Christmas of last year and I am so disgusted as to how I looked then. Ick.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
Heh, according to this thing, I gotta drop about 100 pounds to get into the non overweight category.
I'm curious: Say I weighed 225 pounds, but didn't have much in the way of actual body fat on me. I'd still not be considered overweight, right? Depending on how built I was and such.
My goal is to get to 200 though, and be somewhat muscular.
quote:
Falaanla Marr had this to say about Optimus Prime:
BMI indicatorHeh, according to this thing, I gotta drop about 100 pounds to get into the non overweight category.
I'm curious: Say I weighed 225 pounds, but didn't have much in the way of actual body fat on me. I'd still not be considered overweight, right? Depending on how built I was and such.
My goal is to get to 200 though, and be somewhat muscular.
Body fat is what you really have to worry about. Muscle weight is a good thing, but it's a bitch to maintain.
That's why I made that distinction in the first post, that the issue is obesity and not weight
