Bummey the Fool fucked around with this message on 05-16-2004 at 08:40 PM.
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This one time, at Skaw camp:
I thought it was a darker shade too..
A bit darker black... but barely noticable.
They look about the same to me.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
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I bet Karnaj's Mother is proud:
Those are heat sinks, not solar panels. Putting solar panels on a ship with >1KT laser cannons is a waste of time.
Putting heat sinks on a ship that operates where thermal transfer to the environment via convection is impossible is a waste of time.
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Blindy had this to say about Duck Tales:
Putting heat sinks on a ship that operates where thermal transfer to the environment via convection is impossible is a waste of time.
....Heat can radiate away as energy..otherwise if it did not, space ships wouldn't need heaters now would they...So those wings as heat sinks make seense because it would provide a large thin mass for the heat energy to move to then radiate away.
However this is speculating on a movie space ship designed in the late 70's were the SCience in sci-fi wasn't a big factor. Peter fucked around with this message on 05-17-2004 at 02:55 PM.
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Peter needs to learn to type:
....Heat can radiate away as energy..otherwise if it did not, space ships wouldn't need heaters now would they...So those wings as heat sinks make seense because it would provide a large thin mass for the heat energy to move to then radiate away.However this is speculating on a movie space ship designed in the late 70's were the SCience in sci-fi wasn't a big factor.
Are you serious? Radiation is the least effective method of energy transfer. It would take wings a million times that size to do any good.
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Blindy. stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
Are you serious? Radiation is the least effective method of energy transfer. It would take wings a million times that size to do any good.
Star Wars technology is incredibly advanced (and completely make-believe).
So stop arguing before I'm forced to slap you.
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I bet you never expected Mortious to say:
Star Wars technology is incredibly advanced (and completely make-believe).So stop arguing before I'm forced to slap you.
It doesn't matter how advanced it gets. Thermal radiation is practically non existant unless the surface is emiting visible light. I'd agree they are incredibly advanced solar panels that can produce enough energy to drive the lasers before I agree they are heat sinks, any day of the week. Then i'll sleep with your mother.
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Blindy was naked while typing this:
It doesn't matter how advanced it gets. Thermal radiation is practically non existant unless the surface is emiting visible light. I'd agree they are incredibly advanced solar panels that can produce enough energy to drive the lasers before I agree they are heat sinks, any day of the week. Then i'll sleep with your mother.
In the Star Wars galaxy, the vacuum of space still lets you clearly hear sounds.
Ovviously, they don't follow the same rules we do. They're heat sinks. 
And Darth Vaders Tie was a horribly moddified Tie Advanced Prototype. You wouldnt expect the Lord of the Sith to fly some normal gimps ship?
Now, a question for all those Star Wars wannabees... What was the name of Captain Needa's ship? DarkerSpook fucked around with this message on 05-18-2004 at 11:05 AM.
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Check out the big brain on DarkerSpook!
Now, a question for all those Star Wars wannabees... What was the name of Captain Needa's ship?
Avenger.
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Some sources suggest or assume that the wings of TIE craft are solar power collectors. Unfortunately, this cannot be one of the wings' significant functions. Sunshine and starshine are not sufficient to power the propulsion, weapons or any other major mechanism of any craft which is as potent and dynamic as a TIE-series starship. If the fighter is operating in space near a habitable planet, the sunlight will provide no more than about a kilowatt per square metre. The common TIE has an array area of just over a hundred square metres. At this rate, it would take at least several weeks to accrue enough energy to enter or escape the gravity-well of a planet. The energy requirements for hyperspace jumps, made by the non-combat TIEs and the most advanced fighter models, are much more extreme.A solar-powered TIE would be at a great disadvantage if it was deployed in the outer reaches of a system or in deep space. At most, any solar power collected through the radiators is supplementary to the onboard reactors. Perhaps it is enough to augment the power to cockpit instrumentation and other peripheral processes. At most, solar power could be used for ignition when the fusion reactors are cold-started. They might barely provide enough power to charge up a small, low-temperature electrode fusion device, which might in turn help to initiate the main reactors. (Of course, this would not be the primary justification and function of the wings, but it might account for the popular perception.)
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Blindy got served! Blindy got served!
It doesn't matter how advanced it gets. Thermal radiation is practically non existant unless the surface is emiting visible light. I'd agree they are incredibly advanced solar panels that can produce enough energy to drive the lasers before I agree they are heat sinks, any day of the week. Then i'll sleep with your mother.
Even at 100% efficiency, if they were in orbit around, say, Earth, they would generate around 1 kilowatt/m^2 The surface area of a TIE's wings is estimated to be around 100 m^2 or so, so if the sunlight was somehow magically able to hit all the solar panels equally perfectly, you're still talking a measly 100 kW. To fire its 1 kiloton laser cannons once would require it to sit and absorb sunlight for around 3,200 years.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
Bummey the Fool fucked around with this message on 05-18-2004 at 12:46 PM.
And i'm not saying that they have to be solar panels, i'm saying it's a helluva lot more likely that they would be solar panels than heat sinks.
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Blindy had this to say about Duck Tales:
Where are you guys getting this 1 kw/m^2 number from? It's an awful big assumption.
That's not an assumption, that's the so called 'Solar Constant'; the average flow rate of solar energy to Earth.Tarquinn fucked around with this message on 05-18-2004 at 01:05 PM.
Furthermore, the idea that the dark color of the wings increases radiator effiency displays a less than elementry understanding of thermal radiation dynamics and was probibly prefaced by the observation that darker surfaces appear to be hotter. While this is true, the reason for this disparity is the fact that darker surfaces absorb more radiant energy and not that they radiate energy more efficiently.
If anything, the color of the wings would be prohibitive to the radiation of heat from the body of the craft. There is a reason that the underbelly of the space shuttle is black- it is to keep it as hot as possible in outer space so that the thermal contraction forces do not cause the ceramic heat shield to crack as it freezes slowly over the course of 14 days along with the rest of the shuttle. Blindy fucked around with this message on 05-18-2004 at 01:27 PM.
Hugin fucked around with this message on 05-18-2004 at 02:52 PM.
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How.... Blindy.... uughhhhhh:
....Furthermore, the idea that the dark color of the wings increases radiator effiency displays a less than elementry understanding of thermal radiation dynamics and was probibly prefaced by the observation that darker surfaces appear to be hotter. While this is true, the reason for this disparity is the fact that darker surfaces absorb more radiant energy and not that they radiate energy more efficiently.
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Um Dude, Black Gives up Radiation better, It tends to have Higher Emisstivity..That kinda why it also absorbs Radiated energy better.
..See this thread points out the true ubergeeks, arguing on how fictional space craft work.
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I wish Peter would say this more often:
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Um Dude, Black Gives up Radiation better, It tends to have Higher Emisstivity..That kinda why it also absorbs Radiated energy better.
..See this thread points out the true ubergeeks, arguing on how fictional space craft work.
uhm, no it doesn't. ir/uv emissions are much lower from any dark color. Trust me I wrote marking material for our ir/uv reflective pigments for our website, I had to research all this shit.
this is about painting of transformers but the physics apply to anything.
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Wr=K*E*(T2^4 - T1^4)The value of E for aluminum paint is 0.55; for mat black paint 0.95; and for practically any other paint 0.90 to 0.95. An aluminum painted transformer will therefore dissipate by radiation approximately 1/3 less heat than a transformer painted some other color.
So a black surface is a very efficient radiator of heat (the only way heat can be realistically dispersed in space from a ship).
Take a black panel and a white panel. put them in an oven and heat them both to the same tempature. put them in a dark room, and film them with a UV or IR camera. The white panel will be emitting 2-3x the heat and radiation per second as the black panel. The white panel will cool down faster. Put them under a light and the black panel will heat up faster. Blindy fucked around with this message on 05-18-2004 at 04:25 PM.
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The logic train ran off the tracks when Blindy said:
no. You are comparing black paint to alumium paint, not the color black to the color silver. Alumium paint contains metal flakes which act as a radiation insulator, while black paint does not. It is not a 1:1 comparison.Take a black panel and a white panel. put them in an oven and heat them both to the same tempature. put them in a dark room, and film them with a UV or IR camera. The white panel will be emitting 2-3x the heat and radiation per second as the black panel. The white panel will cool down faster. Put them under a light and the black panel will heat up faster.
I hate to be a dick, but all my life I learned Black and White aren't colors
But, on the rest of your statement I agree 100%. The easiest test to do is this...
Wear a black teeshirt out in the sun for 5 minutes then come inside a shaded area and see how long it takes for your body to cool down.
Wear a white teeshirt out in the sun for 5 minutes and notice that once you go to a shaded area and see how long it takes for you body to notice the cool down.
That black shirt will absorb the heat fast and keep it.
That white shirt will 'reflect' the heat and 'cool off' quicker...
Ok thats my Mr. Wizard experiment for the day.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
*confused*
but me tink mort said it right... dere could eben be laws of phyiscs dat we habn't discubered yet, so lit it go. dat and it scifi 
schematic here diadem fucked around with this message on 05-18-2004 at 08:14 PM.
I've only ever seen them labeled as solar arrays. Perhaps suns in SW glow with 1000x the light of our sun? It's hard to say. The heat sink idea has some merit, though... sound apparently travels through space (unless we want to say that is a "trick of the camera" and characters cannot hear it), and if you play any SW game/watch any spaceships, they act as if there is a constant friction on them. Turn off the engines? You stop quickly... Waisz fucked around with this message on 05-18-2004 at 08:16 PM.
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diadem had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
me always thought those were twin ion engiens on da sides
They kinda look like that, but I've always had the impression that they are on the back of the cockpit. You can see it in the first schematic, two little things on the backside.
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Waisz had this to say about Cuba:
You nerds can argue over Star Wars all day long if you like. It's scientifically inept. There's no science in Star Wars. Sci-fi is the wrong term...I've only ever seen them labeled as solar arrays. Perhaps suns in SW glow with 1000x the light of our sun? It's hard to say. The heat sink idea has some merit, though... sound apparently travels through space (unless we want to say that is a "trick of the camera" and characters cannot hear it), and if you play any SW game/watch any spaceships, they act as if there is a constant friction on them. Turn off the engines? You stop quickly...
Not to mention they bank and turn like a craft in atmospheric flight. To do a spin in space you would just fire say one jet on the front to the right and one on the back to the left. Instead they roll it almost 90 degrees and then pull "up" like a present fighter would.
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So quoth Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael:
This thread is just sad.
Go away and write a twelve page essay about some comic-book dudes. Tarquinn fucked around with this message on 05-19-2004 at 02:07 AM.
