EverCrest Message Forums
You are not logged in. Login or Register.
Author
Topic: Calling all math lovers...
Alek
Not The Rapist
posted 03-19-2004 12:46:44 AM
I need help in explaining the following math problem to one of my students:

quote:
Find a formula for y[x] if it is known that the instantaneous growth rate y'[x] is proportional to y[x] and it is known that y[0]=5 and y[5.7]=10.
Does the value of y[x] double every 5.7 years?

The section they're in is Differential Equations and the most common one they use is y'[x] = r y[x], where y[x]=k E^rx (k and r being constants). I'm having trouble explaining this problem to my student. Any (constructive) help is welcome.

"Love wisdom, and she will make you great. Embrace her, and she will bring you honour. She will be your crowning glory."
-Proverbs 4:8-9
Rabidbunnylover
Pancake
posted 03-19-2004 01:19:09 AM
Here's how I'd go through it...

The wording of the problem means that we have an equation similar to:

dy/dx=r*y

For simplicity (and to make the problem yield a meaningful solution), we want to make sure that anything that directly depends on y is integrated with respect to y, and anything that directly depends on x is integrated with respect to x. We accomplish this by a series of algebraic manipulations. In this case, we first divide both sides by y, yielding:

dy/dx/y=r

Then, we multiply both sides by dx, so that the other side will be the integral w.r.t. x, yielding:

dy/y=r*dx.

Now that we've done that, we simply integrate both sides.

The student should remember from earlier that Integral[du/u]=ln|u|.

So...ln|y|=Integral[r*dx]

Since r has no dependence on x, we can remove it from the integral, yielding:

ln|y|=r*Integral[dx]

Which trivially yields:
ln|y|=r*x + C

(Remember, we need to put the constant of integration somewhere, and I put it the place that it's usually put)

Raising e to both sides, we find
e^^(ln|y|)=e^^(r*x + C)

The definition of ln (inverse of e^), yields:
|y|=e^^(r*x + C).

Since e^^(r*x + C) is always positive, the absolute value doesn't matter (you can just drop the whole thing altogether if the professor isn't being strict about that kind of thing). Using that and one of the properties of exponents, we find:
y=e^^(r*x) * e^^(C)

However, since C is just an arbitrary constant of integration, we can define a new C (might call it C prime if you're having trouble conveying this concept) which is e^^C, the substitution of which yields:
y=C*e^^(r*x)

Now, we've got two unknowns: C and r. The only way to find these is to use two known points. If you didn't have the value at x=0, you'd have to use a system of equations, but since you do, you can simply plug that in first. In this case r*0 is 0, e^^0 is 1, and 1*C=C. So C=5.

Now, the equation is of the form:
y=5*e^^(r*x)

Now, plugging in the second set of known values, we find:
10=5*e^^(r*5.7)

A bit of algebra, or a calculator, depending on the situation should see the student through solving for x.

Now, if the student compares the value of y[x+5.7] to y[x], he or she should see that using the same property of exponents we used to define our new constant, he or she can find a geometrical relationship between the two values. The common ratio will either be greater than or equal to 2, in which case the answer to the problem's question is yes, or it will be less than 2, in which case the answer is no.

Merp
Alek
Not The Rapist
posted 03-19-2004 01:26:58 AM
Wow, that's just amazing. Thank you.
"Love wisdom, and she will make you great. Embrace her, and she will bring you honour. She will be your crowning glory."
-Proverbs 4:8-9
Karnaj
Road Warrior Queef
posted 03-19-2004 01:31:31 AM
I'm SO glad I stopped after Calc 2.
That's the American Dream: to make your life into something you can sell. - Chuck Palahniuk, Haunted

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith



Beer.

Alek
Not The Rapist
posted 03-19-2004 01:33:17 AM
quote:
Karnaj had this to say about pies:
I'm SO glad I stopped after Calc 2.

You're missing out on the fun stuff.

"Love wisdom, and she will make you great. Embrace her, and she will bring you honour. She will be your crowning glory."
-Proverbs 4:8-9
Espio Idsavant
You have gotten better at Being a Lush! (200)
posted 03-19-2004 01:35:04 AM
I went all the way to Multivariable Calc III, and my brain still hasnt recovered after 2 years.
And you can still be free, If time will set you free
And going higher than the mountain tops
And go high like the wind don't stop...


[ My gooberish Live Journal thingy ]

Alek
Not The Rapist
posted 03-19-2004 01:35:39 AM
quote:
Espio Idsavant had this to say about the Spice Girls:
I went all the way to Multivariable Calc III, and my brain still hasnt recovered after 2 years.

I miss multivariable calc.

"Love wisdom, and she will make you great. Embrace her, and she will bring you honour. She will be your crowning glory."
-Proverbs 4:8-9
Razor
posted 03-19-2004 01:39:26 AM
let's see... next semester for me:

Calc 1 (refresher/grade improvement)
Calc 3 (grade imp)
Linear Algebra (again)
Diff eq (New one)

this is for transfer into Astronomy... which has a forced minor in Math. so feh... I'll be a math nerd after I finish...

Astronomy is a passion...
Engineering is a love...
My job isn't a job, it's my career, and I love every minute of it: Observatory Superintendent
Rabidbunnylover
Pancake
posted 03-19-2004 01:39:45 AM
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Alek Saege said:
Wow, that's just amazing. Thank you.

You're welcome, I'm just sharing the love

Merp
Karnaj
Road Warrior Queef
posted 03-19-2004 01:40:19 AM
quote:
Aw, geez, I have Alek Saege all over myself!
You're missing out on the fun stuff.

Sorry, all that integration fried my math center permanently. I'm lucky I'm not retarded. Well, more retarded.

That's the American Dream: to make your life into something you can sell. - Chuck Palahniuk, Haunted

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith



Beer.

Led
*kaboom*
posted 03-19-2004 01:42:44 AM
And my school taught basic algrebra in 12th grade I believe I am screwed for life!
Kegwen
Sonyfag
posted 03-19-2004 02:25:01 AM
quote:
Led had this to say about Duck Tales:
And my school taught basic algrebra in 12th grade I believe I am screwed for life!

goddamn...

Tarquinn
Personally responsible for the decline of the American Dollar
posted 03-19-2004 02:32:29 AM
quote:
Alek Saege thought about the meaning of life:
math lovers

OMG, gross!

~Never underestimate the power of a Dark Clown.
Snugglits
I LIKE TO ABUSE THE ALERT MOD BUTTON AND I ENJOY THE FLAVOR OF SWEET SWEET COCK.
posted 03-19-2004 04:12:17 PM
quote:
Led obviously shouldn't have said:
And my school taught basic algrebra in 12th grade I believe I am screwed for life!

Wait, you didn't have options? You were forced to one math class?

[b].sig removed by Mr. Parcelan[/b]
All times are US/Eastern
Hop To: