Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
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When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent nem-x said:
Whatever happened to Sovereign anyways?
That game got canned long ago.
It was turned into Planetside I think 
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Katrinity had this to say about Reading Rainbow:
That game got canned long ago.It was turned into Planetside I think
It was just canned. PlanetSide was in production at the same time as Sovereign.
-Tok
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Mr. Parcelan stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
Sounds a lot like all the other PvP "You Make the MMOG" games.
Sounds like you didn't read the website. 
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1.6.2.2 Some MMOGs have focused more on the sandbox or the virtual reality and simulation of real life aspect of online gaming. Others have focused more on gaming and entertainment. Where does Vanguard: Saga of Heroes fit in?Our focus is first and foremost on making a great game. We want to build on the solid, proven foundation of what makes these games fun and then innovate on top of that foundation.
That said, we are involved in a fascinating industry where projects have usually tried to include both gameplay and social components. We believe that building and supporting community and in-game friendships is a vital part of an immersive game.
Our goal is community involvement and exciting, rewarding gameplay. Our goal is not academic -- we'd much rather receive an award in a games magazine or from a community web site than recognition as computational anthropologists from a university.
-Tok [ 03-16-2004: Message edited by: Toktuk ]
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Toktuk had this to say about Tron:
[QB*splurt*-Tok[/QB]
I second this...
OMG this looks cool!
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Toktuk got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
-Tok
Sounds like a vague, rehashed mission statement that everyone else has ever used.
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Mr. Parcelan had this to say about pies:
Sounds like a vague, rehashed mission statement that everyone else has ever used.
I've to come to the conclusion that using logic with you is completely pointless, because it flies over your head. Say hello to my ignore button.
-Tok
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Toktuk had this to say about Knight Rider:
I've to come to the conclusion that using logic with you is completely pointless, because it flies over your head. Say hello to my ignore button.-Tok
I guess that's more socially acceptable than saying "I hate you because we don't like the same things."
No entirely big loss there.
All mmorpgs have been saying that.
It's early days yet though so we'll just have to see.
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And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Toktuk was all like:
I've to come to the conclusion that using logic with you is completely pointless, because it flies over your head. Say hello to my ignore button.-Tok
He's right though, its an entirely vague statement that every other MMOG developer has said in one way or another about their own game. Its basically, "We want to make a good game that will get good reviews, sell a lot of copies, and have an addicted community." How does that statement make it different?
[ 03-16-2004: Message edited by: Talonus ]
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Talonus wrote this stupid crap:
Nevermind, that was strange.
I thought you were blacklisted at first.
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Zair thought about the meaning of life:
I thought you were blacklisted at first.
Yeah, I went and checked the ET thread to see if I was, but I wasn't. That was strange indeed.
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Verily, Talonus doth proclaim:
He's right though, its an entirely vague statement that every other MMOG developer has said in one way or another about their own game. Its basically, "We want to make a good game that will get good reviews, sell a lot of copies, and have an addicted community." How does that statement make it different?
Parce was implying that Vanguard is going to be an open ended PVP game (i.e. Ultima Online at release). This is very much _not_ the case and so completely far away from the truth that I just didn't know where to begin explaining what an inaccurate statement that was. The only way someone could come to that conclusion is if they took one look at the website and made a judgement call before doing any real reading.
Brad & co have said repeatedly that they believe on building from a strong foundation (i.e. DikuMUD, EverQuest). They know what worked for EverQuest and what didn't. So what I think you're going to see is a game that's very similar to EQ in terms of playstyle, but with tweaks to game mechanics that are non-core. I like EverQuest, I think that there is a lot about it that works really well. The team at Sigil is the team that made the foundation of EverQuest. Brad has said all along (even when he was still at SOE) that there were some design decisions they made with EverQuest that just didn't pan out.
What kind of game is EverQuest? It's about facilitated player interaction. Classes have clear, defined strengths and weaknesses (some are better balanced than others, but that's neither here nor there). You have to form groups and raids to overcome obstacles. Player interaction is a good thing, but you have to be careful because you can take it too far and the interaction turns into massive timesinks.
I've been following EverQuest II off and on for awhile, and at first I really thought the team for it understood this. They talked a lot about wanting to facilitate player interaction in the beginning. But after seeing their ideas on paper over the last few months, I'm starting to believe that they are taking this aspect of EverQuest to extreme levels, and not in a good way. One of their first ideas for death penalties was to force you to sit and stare at your corpse until a Priest class came by to res you. Last I heard, the were still for polarizing players and forcing you to choose alligence to Freeport or Qeynos (this works in a RvR game like Dark Age, but not in a PvE centric game like EverQuest). Tradeskill classes are separated from combat classes. There are several other things about the game that just bug me. I really don't think it will be a worthy successor to EverQuest.
Everyone moves onto other games as time progresses. And for those who enjoy EverQuest - there are two obvious choices (IMO) that you can take: EverQuest II or Vanguard. It's my opinion that EverQuest II is about _forced_ player interaction and Vanguard will be about _facilitated_ player interaction. There is a difference.
It sounds like a lot of you aren't giving the game a chance. I think there is a lot of good ideas that Sigil has in store from Vanguard. Their message boards are very active and their communication with the community at large is also very good. Take the time to read their FAQ, there's a lot of information on there. It took me at least an hour to browse through the General MMOG Philosophy section alone.
-Tok
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Toktuk painfully thought these words up:
It sounds like a lot of you aren't giving the game a chance. I think there is a lot of good ideas that Sigil has in store from Vanguard. Their message boards are very active and their communication with the community at large is also very good. Take the time to read their FAQ, there's a lot of information on there. It took me at least an hour to browse through the General MMOG Philosophy section alone.
I'll try to give it a fair chance, but it's not going to be easy. I remember some of the stuff that they thought was a good and needed idea, and how it made me burn out on EQ for so long.
Staring at spellbooks for most of my playing time makes baby Jesus puke. We'll have to wait and see if they really have learned their lesson, or if they just think they know what they did wrong.
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Palador ChibiDragon had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
I'll try to give it a fair chance, but it's not going to be easy. I remember some of the stuff that they thought was a good and needed idea, and how it made me burn out on EQ for so long.Staring at spellbooks for most of my playing time makes baby Jesus puke. We'll have to wait and see if they really have learned their lesson, or if they just think they know what they did wrong.
I actualy got mad when they removed that. You see you are a low level caster type you need to look at your spell book after a your 30th or was it 35th levle you were expericenced enough that you didnt have to. It was a good idea and it also was a reward to those who achived higher levels.
What got me upset was they basicly changed the entire way the game was played/balenced with luclin AA points... 
I played a Warrior and I was a well geared one at that, but suddonely I couldnt get a group becuse everyone was now able to trio then duo and finaly solo. you had AE groups forming which didnt need a mele class at all.
Warriors got put on a shelf only draged out for a Raid and then only for some mobs, becuse SKs had better taunt now almost as many hps and ac, so did paladins. The sub classes Passed the parent class on all levels.
meanwhile ON A PvP server you had HT and MB killing players in one shot somtimes even LB which totaly threw out your PvP ascpects.
EQ II is what made me quit EQ. I had 4 years into the game 13 accoutns all of which were 62+ many 65th. Most were epic. All that effort and then Im told sorry this takes place 500 years after you cant take your gear or your charactors with you. Then I found out they were going to require you to have your gear maintained. I just didnt have to worry about my armour falling appart or my sword breaking. Trade skills as a charactor class 
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Somthor was listening to Cher while typing:
Waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh
We'll see. The amount of fun I had with EQ until, oh, about two years into it gives me at least a little faith in Brad's ability to put together a game, and hopefully he'll sit down and do a little innovation...but eh. At this stage it's still all words on a page...but something to watch, I guess.
Here's to hoping. =)
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ACES! Another post by Alidane:
Anyway....We'll see. The amount of fun I had with EQ until, oh, about two years into it gives me at least a little faith in Brad's ability to put together a game, and hopefully he'll sit down and do a little innovation...but eh. At this stage it's still all words on a page...but something to watch, I guess.
Here's to hoping. =)
More than words on a page at this point, as I believe they are in alpha already...but I get your point and agree.
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
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From the book of Gydyon, chapter 3, verse 16:
More than words on a page at this point, as I believe they are in alpha already...but I get your point and agree.
Yeah, they've got alpha. Woody visited em and got to see it.
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When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Tegadil said:
Yeah, they've got alpha. Woody visited em and got to see it.
Woody's write up (link) is what got me interested in the game in the first place. He doesn't pull a lot of punches when it comes to these type of things, and his article was pretty positive.
-Tok
) and judge it when I can actually play it.
