FLAME ON!
quote:
Freschel Spindrift stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
I won't cry when RIAA goes belly up. Where in the fuck are they going to get $98 billion from these four colledge students? Corporate scumbags like those make capitalism look bad. BTW it's half way down the article.
FLAME ON!
No, that article isn't biased at all!
Even though I agree with it, on a board like this, a more reliable news source might be prudent.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the music industry like ~20 to 25 billion anually? How do they figure these students cost them 4x what they make in a year?
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Random Insanity Generator got all f'ed up on Angel Dust and wrote:
Except that they originally tried to sue for 98 TRILLION dollars or some shit like that, then they found out that they mis-calculated and brough it down to 98 billion.Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the music industry like ~20 to 25 billion anually? How do they figure these students cost them 4x what they make in a year?
This is basically the RIAA's attempt to provide disincentive for mp3 trading. Of course, it's not going to work. A handful of people being sued for ludicrous amounts (that'll never end up actually going through to be fully awarded, considering the monetary standings of those people who are not Bill Gates) is far less threatening than several thousand being sued for $500 apiece.
That's a 973,000 file margin of error.
Hmm...RIAA fuzzy math strikes again!!
I've started to think that the fine arts should definitely move towards an independent nature. This would do away with incompetent music artists as it would leave only the artists who are making art because they want to. I know that the fine arts would probably actually crumble some if this were to happen. It would be bad if artists couldn't afford to do their thing, but having such a big industry that pays people to attempt art and make crap is a bad system. We know that music can get distributed with no problem right now as it's proving to not be an issue even when it's illegal. Artists who make good stuff would definitely be able to get exposure.
I'm feeling kinda sick, so I can't really explain out this idea in full. 
Still, movies definitely need to be a largescale, profiting thing still, simply because of the work involved. Without potential capital, I realize that movie producers would never be able to borrow the money to produce. [ 04-15-2003: Message edited by: Where's Waisz? ]
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The logic train ran off the tracks when Where's Waisz? said:
While on one hand I am rather disgusted by the idea of a communistic system where there is little incentive to work (until the government becomes socialist and kills you), I have to admit that I'm rather against the idea of a capitalistic music industry.I've started to think that the fine arts should definitely move towards an independent nature. This would do away with incompetent music artists as it would leave only the artists who are making art because they want to. I know that the fine arts would probably actually crumble some if this were to happen. It would be bad if artists couldn't afford to do their thing, but having such a big industry that pays people to attempt art and make crap is a bad system. We know that music can get distributed with no problem right now as it's proving to not be an issue even when it's illegal. Artists who make good stuff would definitely be able to get exposure.
I'm feeling kinda sick, so I can't really explain out this idea in full.
Still, movies definitely need to be a largescale, profiting thing still, simply because of the work involved. Without potential capital, I realize that movie producers would never be able to borrow the money to produce.
There's no way to effectively halt file-trading for one thing, without halting it all. You have to block innocent movie files if you're going to block the newest Hollywood film, just as you have to block some random remix of the theme to Metroid if you're going to try to block the newest release by Eminem.
That said, I don't think "freelance art" will function in any sense at all. Even the Renaissance masters had rich patrons funding their work. People don't do things because they can, beyond a certain point. And realistically, people CAN'T do things beyond a certain level of effort unless they don't have to work on other things to support themselves.
A free-market society punishes idiocy directly proportional to the amount of idiocy being perpetrated.
The RIAA won't be around to see dime one of this 96 billion dollars. [ 04-15-2003: Message edited by: Karnaj ]
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
This insanity brought to you by Random Insanity Generator:
Except that they originally tried to sue for 98 TRILLION dollars or some shit like that, then they found out that they mis-calculated and brough it down to 98 billion.
No. Slashdot editors don't know how to do math, which is where the 98 trillion figure came from.
BTW, the RIAA doesn't give a rats ass whether you like them or not.
I especially like the line drawn between "renting" and, well, "stealing." [ 04-15-2003: Message edited by: Suddar ]
And that's all I have to say.
[ 04-15-2003: Message edited by: Kegwen ]
quote:
Drysart had this to say about Pirotess:
BTW, the RIAA doesn't give a rats ass whether you like them or not.
That's nice. But in general, you can only treat the people you depend upon like shit for so long before they tell you to fuck off. The situation with the RIAA is rapidly approaching that "fuck off" point. [ 04-15-2003: Message edited by: Karnaj ]
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
Would our society melt down into some kind of musically inept goo?
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Where's Waisz? had this to say about Jimmy Carter:
So, what would be so bad if we basically cut music loose to do its own thing?Would our society melt down into some kind of musically inept goo?
No, that's what happens when you put the RIAA in charge of things.
I know it'll never happen, but I think it'd be kinda cool if it did.
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Where's Waisz? had this to say about pies:
I guess the easist way to go about it would be to remove intellectual copyrights from music.I know it'll never happen, but I think it'd be kinda cool if it did.
It'd be a better idea to remove intellectual copyrights from NON-LIVE music. That way people will still be motivated to make music, since their songs can't be covered by every single garage-band in every single city in the nation without getting some money from that. Plus it'd still be financially-viable to tour, which is how most groups make the majority of their money anyways.
But that is just about as likely to happen as your own idea.
[God, I mangled that.] [ 04-15-2003: Message edited by: Drakkenmaw ]
This is something ILLEGAL people. Why should it be a problem that someone is taking a legal course of action to stop someone from stealing their money again?
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Falaanla Marr had this to say about the Spice Girls:
While I agree the amount is high, I'm glad to see them taking action and proving they arent just claiming they will.This is something ILLEGAL people. Why should it be a problem that someone is taking a legal course of action to stop someone from stealing their money again?
I think the outrage is over the "shotgun to kill a fly" approach. I can understand a $98 billion claim against a p2p network, given that such an amount of money is a reasonable requirement to claim to be able to shut down an organization. But a couple small individuals, college students no less - it seems not only unreasonable, it seems ludicrous.
I personally think that if you took that 98 billion, and divided it up into as many $500-$5000 suits as you could... you'd have a far greater impact into dampening the community. Because people would be afraid of being one of the next several thousand asked to pony up either a legal defense or a significant wad of cash; as is, it simply looks like the RIAA is beating a small representative group of the entire community straight into the ground.
Isn't one of the legal considerations over claims supposed to be "ability to pay," anyways? [ 04-15-2003: Message edited by: Drakkenmaw ]
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Iron Parcelan attempted to be funny by writing:
What do I have to do to be known as a 'fat-cat'?
Piss off somebody who's poor with your daily excesses.
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Suddar obviously shouldn't have said:
Piss off somebody who's poor with your daily excesses.
In that case, I'm repossessing your house.
Success!
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A sleep deprived Karnaj stammered:
The situation with the RIAA is rapidly approaching that "fuck off" point.
Where else you planning on getting music legally from? Even most so-called "indie" labels are members of the RIAA.
You could always steal it, I suppose, but don't come whining when you're the target of a lawsuit.
It doesn't go around illegally starting claims, right?
I still say arguing the morality of pirating music (arr matey) is stupid if you won't actually do anything to help get the laws changed/clarified. Go ahead and keep pirating, but don't say what you're doing isn't wrong. Fix the system, or admit you're operating outside it's legal boundaries.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
RIAA, as I recall, only involves itself with laws on the books, yes? Laws that, if we want changed badly enough, we will vote for or against? Laws that we can mail our legislators about?It doesn't go around illegally starting claims, right?
I still say arguing the morality of pirating music (arr matey) is stupid if you won't actually do anything to help get the laws changed/clarified. Go ahead and keep pirating, but don't say what you're doing isn't wrong. Fix the system, or admit you're operating outside it's legal boundaries.
Too bad they won't listen because they're paid off by the RIAA. Soooo...fixing the system would involve lowering campaign contributions, which would in turn have to be passed by the very people who benefit from said campaign contributions. [ 04-15-2003: Message edited by: Tatsukaze ]
Such a materialistic world.quote:
Drysart had this to say about pies:
Where else you planning on getting music legally from? Even most so-called "indie" labels are members of the RIAA.You could always steal it, I suppose, but don't come whining when you're the target of a lawsuit.
I personally am thoroughly uninterested in almost every form of music which the RIAA distributes. The most recent CD I bought (Ho1KC soundtrack) will probably be the last new music I get for a long, long time.
Besides, if something really tickles my fancy it's probably going to be not of American origin. I could order it via an import vendor, no? Certainly a label in Germany isn't necessarily part of the RIAA?
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
quote:
This insanity brought to you by Tatsukaze:
Too bad they won't listen because they're paid off by the RIAA. Soooo...fixing the system would involve lowering campaign contributions, which would in turn have to be passed by the very people who benefit from said campaign contributions.
So fix the system. Limiting campaign contributions is on the block as it is now.
It still doesn't change the fact that the law is in fact the law. Don't argue that what you're doing is legal...it's not legal. It's stealing. Civil disobedience is great, but understand that it still may result in you getting arrested or sued on the way to your quested goal.
Arguing that what you're doing is right is fine, but it's also illegal. Too many people try to make things out as being legal, or in a gray area where "yeah it's illegal, but not REALLY illegal" or "yeah it's illegal, but they're jackasses". Doesn't change the fact it's illegal, is my point.
There ARE legal options, however long they may take to get to work.
By no means, however, think I'm saying that things in the industry are right as it is right now. Artists are getting shafted out of money made, and if the boom in CD Writing drives has shown me nothing else, it's that the cost of the actual CD? Yeah. That can't POSSIBLY be that high. $0.75 out of a $20 accounts for the disk itself. How much goes to the artist? and how much gets mucked up in the company itself? The industry needs to accept a smaller piece of the pie, but enlarge the pie rather than run it into the ground. They need to move with the times.
Likewise, the method they're going with to enforce the laws is highly dubious.
Doesn't change the fact that pirating music is illegal, however. Doesn't change the fact that it's stealing a non-necessity.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
Basically, the government runs, and we as individuals can't do shit about it. It makes me wonder what the true meaning of "democracy" is.
No, it's not ethically satisfying, but adopting a "holy avenger" approach to it with billion dollar lawsuits only turns you into some tyrannical, greedy foe of the public. I can easily see piracy increasing out of spite for the RIAA as a result of these lawsuits.
If the RIAA started something that made music readily and inexpensively accessable to everyone - if people were shown that they RIAA is something valuable to the music industry - piracy would grind to a halt.
But of course they won't, they'll continue gouging with one hand and wielding a flaming crucifix of morality with the other. Hey, whatever floats your boat.
[ps. that music service drys posted last time sucked ass, and they locked me into a twelve month contract at ten bucks a month [ 04-15-2003: Message edited by: Maradon XP ]
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Maradon XP had this to say about Punky Brewster:
But of course they won't, they'll continue gouging with one hand and wielding a flaming crucifix of morality with the other. Hey, whatever floats your boat.
That was the last thing Matt said to me before he went to bed, and I was like "...wtf". Then I saw your post and I was all "ohhhh..."
Yeah.
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Kegwen obviously shouldn't have said:
That was the last thing Matt said to me before he went to bed, and I was like "...wtf". Then I saw your post and I was all "ohhhh..."Yeah.
...?
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Karnaj attempted to be funny by writing:
I personally am thoroughly uninterested in almost every form of music which the RIAA distributes. The most recent CD I bought (Ho1KC soundtrack) will probably be the last new music I get for a long, long time.Besides, if something really tickles my fancy it's probably going to be not of American origin. I could order it via an import vendor, no? Certainly a label in Germany isn't necessarily part of the RIAA?
Well if you are going to import them, there are factories in like the Ukraine that are popping out pirated copies right next to the legit ones
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Freschel Spindrift had this to say about Duck Tales:
Yes, I agree that piracy is wrong, but suing for payments that no one can approach is very wrong. That mean that the unlucky person will not only have to pay the fine, his scions will probably have to pay as well. How many of generations is needed to pay it off? I really don't think the courts will allow that amount to go through.
The court wont award that much, dont worry.
The jist of what they were trying to geta cross to the RIAA was basically broken down to this. Make smaller Cd's. In the days of LP's they only had x amount of songs. With the introduction of the CD came more room to fit songs on. This has put pressures on the artists and song writer's to produce more music. In this theory, this is a good reason why there is so much crap on the market. They have to make more songs. Fill more space. The quality has come down in favor of quantity.
If they went back to the number of songs that were on the old LP's (supposedly fewer in number)...there won't be as much pressure on the artists and songwriter's to fill up this gap. You should see a rise in the quality of music produced and put on the market. The prices of CD's should be lowered in proportion to the amount of works actually being paid for on the album. Less songs..less money needed to be shilled out to various whatever.
Anyways, the whole point he said they were trying to make to the RIAA. Better quality songs and lower prices...and they will be able to move the CD's. People maybe more inclined to not pirate.
