So... whatever your system of belief is, whatever you worship or refuse to worship... why do you do it?
That's, surprisingly, something little looked at, and I'm curious.
So why?
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Nicole had this to say about dark elf butts:
(I'm in an odd mood right now.)So... whatever your system of belief is, whatever you worship or refuse to worship... why do you do it?
That's, surprisingly, something little looked at, and I'm curious.
So why?
Simple. I dont feel a necessity to believe in something I cannot see, so I have no concrete beliefs, and onlybelieve that there may be a higher power, but till they prove themselves to me I wont believe.
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Falaanla Marr had this to say about the Spice Girls:
Simple. I dont feel a necessity to believe in something I cannot see, so I have no concrete beliefs, and onlybelieve that there may be a higher power, but till they prove themselves to me I wont believe.
Understandable and quite reasonable, actually. The burden of proof in these cases is not on the individual to prove something does NOT exist, but on the believers/entity in question to prove it DOES. And that's not even getting into the whole virtuous living can of worms.
And on a different note... I'm going to bed now. If I come back tomorrow and this is a giant flame war, that's it, I'm going Elder God on all your asses.
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We were all impressed when Falaanla Marr wrote:
Simple. I dont feel a necessity to believe in something I cannot see, so I have no concrete beliefs, and onlybelieve that there may be a higher power, but till they prove themselves to me I wont believe.
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Mikasi had this to say about Captain Planet:
Good answer. I was never one for blind faith. I'll believe in Anubis though. Zephy is a jackal. Anubis is a jackal. Perfect logic there.
'Nubis 'Nubis 'Nubis!
*bounces*
[ 03-25-2003: Message edited by: Zephyer ]
Same reasons as Pved I suppose, every organized religion has more holes than swiss cheese after being in a blender
Why? I feel connected better with the old ways. Goddess worship, and nature worship.
Matron deity is Bast, Parton is Kokopalli.
Gods yes, when I say I'm a damned dirty hippy tree huggin druid, I mean it ;P hehe
Believing in God and his interest in our world, there are two choices: worship, or rebellion. I choose not to rebel.
That's why the best Christians I know are the Christian philosophers (the ones who follow the spirit, if not necessarily the word of Christianity), the best Moslems I know are the Moslem philosophers, best Jews are the Jewish philosophers, best Native American faithkeepers are their philosophers, and so forth.
I believe that religions should never get past that philosophical stage, and in that respect I'm probably something of an elitist. Essentially, once you start organizing an actual religion, you're getting away from the "what is important" aspect and getting into the "how we do it" aspect. It turns into a system of rewards and (more often) punishments, and gets dissociated from the core philosophical ideal...And to be blunt, if you only follow a certain religious tenet because you like the church, then you're spiritual about business organization rather than spiritual about faith.
In other words, if the whole reason you're into religion is the "Risk vs Reward" aspect, playing EQ is as good a way for you to find fulfillment as anything.
That's why I tend to veer away from organized religion, and tend to stick to a philosophy. A philosophy isn't what you're doing for a reward, or what you're doing to avoid punishment. A philosophy is a mental attitude you possess, it is what you are doing, it is what you feel the proper way to live is. Philosophy is how you are, Religion is why you do something, if that makes sense.
The advantage is that it's very hard to be untrue to your personal philosophy because it is how and who you are, whereas in most religions it's altogether too easy to ricochet off the risk/reward barriers like a pinball.
Plus I don't have to go around annoying people in their homes with pamphlets.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
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Check out the big brain on ArchAngel!
Because it is important, to me anyway, to show at least a small amount of respect to the Powers That Be.
As opposed to the Powers That Were, like Cthulhu?
i tease Ditty in an attempt to keep things playfully light...i mean no offense to her or anyone else. please no hurt me.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
Why? Because every once in awhile we have to make a leap of, well, faith. [ 03-25-2003: Message edited by: Suddar ]
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So quoth Hireko FishSlayer:
Why do I worship? I worship because the God that created our world, maintains our world, and has gone through a very large amount of work to allow us to join him in the next is deserving of it. He gives out the most valuable gift in universe for free, and I think that deserves a heavy helping of gratitude. I worship because he asks it of us, and because he worthy to receive it.Believing in God and his interest in our world, there are two choices: worship, or rebellion. I choose not to rebel.
As far as a giant, white-bearded invisible man floating around in the sky is concerned, I don't believe it. at all. This is the image that most people who talk about God seem to believe in, whether they realize it or not. An enormous father figure sitting on some heavenly throne surrounded by clouds. Essentially, an omnipotent, omnicient human being.
This, I don't believe in.
The idea of a higher power, a force of good that manifests itself in reality, that I can believe in. [ 03-25-2003: Message edited by: Maradon XP ]
To answer the question I think you are asking quite directly, I am not a person that feels the need to follow the various mandates and traditions of my Church out of fear of some divine vengance upon my immaterial self if I fail to avoid meat on fridays or indulge in premariatial sex. I look at the bigger picture- Lots of the rules and guidelines created by the church are great ideas- and if you follow them you will lead a Pious and respectable life, however there are many that have been generated by neccessity of some anchient people, or likewise by a bribe or opinion of a figure responcible for either the translation or application of Gods various words in former times. Take for example the Catholic belief that Priests shouldn't be married. It is a well documented fact that this particular mandate was implimented simply because the laws in the middle ages gave property of the father to the son upon his death, and the church was tired of buying new land for every priest to come along, since upon their death the property was not returned to the church, but passed on to the priest's family. This started out as a neccesity of the church- it could not afford to buy the land, and soon became a tradition, to the point that now the merits of celibate priests are argued by the church as being worth guarding despite their vast effects on the incomming priest numbers. A simular story can be told for many of the various religions around the world, for many of their traditions.
I do not fault them for this. A Church is an buisness undernieth it all. Perhaps one with higher intentions than the simple accumulation of material wealth, but like all buisnesses, they have certian neccessities that must be aquired.
If you boil any Church's set of beliefs down you will uncover the same set of values and morals apparent in all: Respect your neighbors, do not let greed cloud your judgement, do not give in to readily to self distructive temptations of the flesh. All these messages are worth following, reguardless of your current view on the possiblity of a gasious existance after the expiration date of your mortal stroll. Taking these to heart and making them a part of your own code of values will lead to a life where you are respected by your peers, well liked, honored, and admired.
The second part of this question is the more difficult to respond to- why do I believe in a higher power... Its difficult because I really don't know. I'd like to think that I have a good reason to think that God is out there, some where, smiling down on us and wishing we would listen to him- but I don't really have one. I instead look at all the things science likes to attribute to pure chance because of a lack of data or theory (like how genetic mutations managed to make a duck billed warm blooded breast feeding animal that lays eggs, or how the grand design of all life of the world fits together and works so damn well, or how love works) and say that THAT is God. Grand archetect, certianly, benevilent spirit, we can only hope. Man kind has a habit of both fearing and admiring that which we do not comprehend, and it seems very possible to me that the benevelent nature of the collective God figures of the world could very well be attributed to this habit, and perhaps the traditional lession that God loves everyone. For all I know, God might be a passionless designer, an artist without feelings, creating just to see what happens. I do think that God exists, and I do think that If you live a good life, you will be rewarded, perhaps only in the infinately tempoed dreams of a dieing body as their concienceness approaches the final darkness and looks back upon their own life, or perhaps in an intersteller orgy on the other side- I can't help but thinking that what's at the end of this path is something that is completely uncomprehensible to our existance and fundimentally different that anything that we could possibly imagine.
But ich weiss nicht, when you boil it all down. Pruned speculation can only make a tree of oberservation appear to contain a hint of knowledge. The only way to find out for sure is to die.
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I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say one was an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow it was better to say one was a humanist or an agnostic. I finally decided that I'm a creature of emotion as well as of reason. Emotionally I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.-Isaac Asimov
Morality comes from humans, not God. The number of mysteries in the universe is rapidly shrinking thanks to science. I now expect death to be oblivion, nothingness, and I don't fear that. In other words, all the purposes God had previously served for me have been usurped by tangible things. So why should I bother?
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith
I like studying various religions and philosophies, and seeing which parts resonate within me. So far, studied a lot of christendom, including the catholic church, and many protestant religions, Unitarian Universalism, and Hinduism. Currently starting to study a bit of Buddism.
That being said... I am an ordained minister in the Universal Life Church. Actually, anyone can become one by just filling out this little webform.
I believe that a higher power would only be responsible for a lot of things, including good and evil. He's hard to understand, and although I will never fully understand God, I will be able to know more and more about him as I grow older.
There are a lot of questions that no religion or lack of religion answers. I basically just trust in the fact that I'll die and that these questions will be answered in the end.
Hey, at least I'm hoping for something.
Anyone who takes this as "gasp, I'm holier than you are, has issues. [ 03-25-2003: Message edited by: Lenlalron Flameblaster ]
I'm still trying to figure out if I believe it or not, though.
"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums
[ 03-25-2003: Message edited by: Kegwen ]
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Grendel stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
Lutheren
That's "Lutheran," pal.
"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums
Plenty of examples in every one of "Love thy brother", but plenty of actions proving that the brother should only be loved if "he worships the same God we do in the same way we do..."
I believe in nature, earth, and (some) gods.
That is all.
I need to believe that there is a higher life form than humans out there. And any higher life form could be considered gods from our viewpoint.
I'm another one who doesn't care for organized religion, though. Especially since I think that, until you start forcing your beliefs on others, you should be able to believe in whatever you want.
If more organized religions could keep to their doctrines of tolerance, I would find it easier to respect them. [ 03-25-2003: Message edited by: MorbId ]
I'd like to really hear from some people involved in organized religions. As I see it, EC has a rather large population of atheists, agnostics and deists, but I would like to see what attracted people to organized religions. What the draw was. That was pretty much the point of this thread, anyway... just wondering what the draw was.
Gyd! Ass! In here! Now!@#
However im kinda leanign towards aithist being as its kinda hard to have faith in the great unknown, but at the same tiem am fully willig to acept nany religion that doesnt preach mass stupidyy if tis words and morals make enough sense
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If I were not an atheist, I would believe in a God who would choose to save people on the basis of the totality of their lives and not the pattern of their words. I think he would prefer an honest and righteous atheist to a TV preacher whose every word is God, God, God, and whose every deed is foul, foul, foul.
-Isaac Asimov
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. - John Kenneth Galbraith