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Topic: A (Different) question about LOTR
Rodent King
Stabbed in the Eye
posted 12-24-2002 06:27:23 PM
In the first part of the story, Tolkien counts that there were nine rings made for men, who baecame the ringwraiths.

He also includes that three were made for elves, and seven for the dwarves. Why don't we see any pint size wraiths running around?

My inner child is bigger than my outer adult.
Trillee
I <3 My Deviant
posted 12-24-2002 06:30:12 PM
My guess would be they didn't get corrupted.
Super Kagrama
ROFLELFOLOL!!!11!1 YUO CAN'T RAED MY POSTSSE!@!11
posted 12-24-2002 06:30:45 PM
Men desire power the most out of all the races, making them the most succeptable to the ring's power.
i shoueld joeg threw the foreast moer offeand!!11
Rodent King
Stabbed in the Eye
posted 12-24-2002 06:31:31 PM
quote:
Aanile was listening to Cher while typing:
My guess would be they didn't get corrupted.

Then why weren't they used to defeat Sauron at the Last Alliance battle, and they made no reference to them ever again?

My inner child is bigger than my outer adult.
Palador ChibiDragon
Dismembered
posted 12-24-2002 06:34:59 PM
quote:
Rodent King had this to say about Optimus Prime:
Then why weren't they used to defeat Sauron at the Last Alliance battle, and they made no reference to them ever again?

I'm guessing that the Dwarves wised up to what was happening before they got corrupted, but were unable to withstand the corruption for very long (unlike the Elves). So, they found a nice, big hole, and threw 'em in.

I believe in the existance of magic, not because I have seen proof of its existance, but because I refuse to live in a world where it does not exist.
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 12-24-2002 06:51:06 PM
First off...the Elven Rings weren't made by Sauron, I believe (he learned ringcraft from them, as I recall). Hence no elven nazgul.

And the dwarves caught on early and removed their rings. Several (three I think) actually made it back to Sauron, and as he started to gather his power in the third age, he offered them once again to the dwarves, who turned him down and gained his eternal enmity.

At least one of the dwarven rings ended up dragon fodder, btw.

Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

Caldur Ral'Nyn
Pancake
posted 12-24-2002 06:54:08 PM
Actually, I believe Sauron did make all of the rings. He did it in disguise, posing as some gift giving demi-god when he handed them out. Even the elven rings. The elves just happened tos ense the true nature of the rings and who Sauron really was, and they were able to hide the rings from him.
Azizza
VANDERSHANKED
posted 12-24-2002 07:06:10 PM
If I recall correctly, and I may well not, he made only the master ring.
However he did have a hand in the creation of the others. He just didn't do it himself.

As for thier only being Human wraiths:
Elves and Dwarves are the good races. Man is nuetral, orcs and the such are the evil ones.

The hearts of man are easily corrupted by greed and power. So it was easy for the 9 to fall. The elves had the power to hold out and were able to keep and still use thier rings. Elron had one and the lady of the wood held another. However I dont' remember what happened to the 3rd.
All the Dwarven rings were lost. I think it was 2 that were eaten by dragons and the other three were lost over time and turned up in Saurons hands. However the point of the one ring of course is that it controls all the others. By it'self it was pretty much powerless. But it acted as a channel for the other rings to focus thier power. ANd so Sauron infused it with a part of his being and made it evil. If not for this none of the rings would have been evil...

Of course this is just my interpretation. Please feel free to correct me on anything that needs it.

"Pacifism is a privilege of the protected"
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 12-24-2002 07:06:20 PM
No. The Elven Rings were forged by Elves, who taught ringcraft to Sauron. The Elves still wear their rings (see Galadriel, for instance, who still wears the Ring of Water). The Elves just know that through rings of power, you can control them if you break the taboo that Sauron broke, and make something like the One Ring.
Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

Caldur Ral'Nyn
Pancake
posted 12-24-2002 07:54:28 PM
Okay..I dug out my copy of the Silmarillion. Deth and I are both right and wrong. Here seems is the answer:

After the defeat of the First Dark Lord, Sauron was left..he was a maia. The messengaer of the Gods was there to deal with him on behalf of the Gods. He truly repented, and again took a fair guise, but it seems it was out of fear. He saw the destruction of his lord. He begged for pardon, but the messenger was of the same level/race as Sauron and could not grant pardon. He was ordered back to Valinor to face the leader of the Gods (not the main diety who created all, but the first batch he created). Sauron couldn't bring himself to do this. He was afraid he would be made to say in Valinor and serve for a long period of time to show his repetence. He couldn't be a servant after being so powerful in Morgoth. So he hid himself away in Middle Earth after the Messanger left.

He wandered Middle Earth under this new guise and a new name. He was Lord of Gifts or something like that. Some of the elves were leary of him, others weren't. He went to stay with them. He fell into his evil ways again.

He felt the Gods once again abadoned middle earth and decided to set himself up as the Lord. When he was with the elves who took him in, he taught them the skill and lore to create the rings. He made the one in secret to control the rest. When he put it on, the elves realized who he really was and resisted. Sauron waged open war on them because he felt the rings should be returned to him, since they were made by what he taught the elves. The elves hid them away..gave them only to the wise, and never used them when Sauron was about.

The three elven rings were not touched by Sauron, only made thruough his tuteledge, hence they weren't fully corrupted as the others that he actually touched during the forging process, but they were still subject to the One Ring because they were made by skills Sauron taught.

Now as for the dwarven rings. The dwarves don't bend easily to any master. They strong and tough, and not as easy to corrupt..tougher then Sauron thought. All theyc ared about was wealth and gold. Hence the rings focused on that obsession. The stories say the beginnings of the 7 dwarven hordes started with a gold ring. The hordes were stolen by dragons, hence some of the rings were consumed by fire and some returned to Sauron.

Men we know about..they were easily conquered. But there were humans of middle Earth..not the Men of Numenor. They were then the great power of the world. Theys ailed to Middle Earth and seems disrupted poor Saurons dreams of power. They took him him hostage back to Numenor. There he was able to make the humnas of numenor jealous of their elven kin..the big armada to Valinor in revolf of the Gods..they split the world and destroyed Numenor. Sauron didn't count on this..he forgot how pissed they could get. He himself ended up in the abyss, then was only able to return to Middle Earth in spirit form, very weak. He needed to regain strength. The survivors of Numenor went there as well..established the Kingdoms there..that rose and fell..blah blah blah..essentially the beginning of the thrid age we know in Lord of the Rings trilogy.

[ 12-24-2002: Message edited by: Caldur Ral'Nyn ]

Peter
Pancake
posted 12-24-2002 11:24:32 PM
I thought the Dwarven rings were what made the dwarves desire gold and wealth so much. o and if you read the appendix for the LoTR you will see a note that Thorin(the dwarf from the hobbit) had a ring.
Ragabash
Pancake
posted 12-25-2002 01:39:03 AM
I believe the wood elf king had the 3rd elven ring. Not sure.
Feed my hungry soul.
Nicole
The hip-hop-happiest bunny in all of marshmallow woods
posted 12-25-2002 01:44:08 AM
Galadriel, Elrond, and some elf in the Havens... I want to say Cirdan, but that dosen't seem right, gah, not digging up my Silmarillion to check.


I just spent
my last cent
purchasing this poverty.

Azrael Heavenblade
Damn Dirty Godmoder
posted 12-25-2002 01:48:21 AM
Gandalf, or Mithrandir if you prefer was also a Maia(betcha didn't know that!) and he has the Ring of Fire, which I think was originally one of the three elvish rings.
"The basic tool for manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them." - Philip K. Dick
Caldur Ral'Nyn
Pancake
posted 12-25-2002 02:35:09 AM
The dwarves did desire gold and wealth naturally, the ring just increased those greeds. And rereading the section, the reason the dwarves couldn't be Nazgul is because Elves and dwarves can't become shadows.

An elf did have the ring of fire, he's the elf who controls the place where the elves leave middle earth. He gave Gandalf the ring to use and protect.

[ 12-25-2002: Message edited by: Caldur Ral'Nyn ]

Lyinar Ka`Bael
Are you looking at my pine tree again?
posted 12-25-2002 03:07:49 AM
Some dude with a name beginning with C forged the Elven rings. I remember just recently reading that in FotR.


Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin

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