Read that, and give me your opinions, please.

But then, who said the world was fair?

In addition, that's just plain greedy. Supply and demand fall into it, yes, but also out there are people called gougers and that's what someone selling ONE very important mage item for over 100K sounds to me.

[ 08-18-2002: Message edited by: Lyinar Ka`Bael ]

That haveing been said, I dont think this price willl last, because eather more people will go to sky, or verent will step in.

Another time someone was MQing Xenorash's Fang (it and the book = monk epic).

I wish I bothered to ask what they were selling them for.

The price is never going to come down as long as people are willing to pay 100k+ for an item that was only 40k max a few months ago.

I'm left with two choices. Either locate and shell out the money for one, or get a group together and camp the king myself.

While a fungi isn't an epic item, the principle remains the same.

Yeah, it's greedy to charge that much for a single epic item. It's also stupid to not accept that much for that item if you can get it. Unless of course you don't CARE, then you'd probably give it away for free to a friend or something.

The economy isn't fair, but nobody said it had to be.

There are regulating bodies, there's people who ensure that everyone has a fair shake in the market. There's nothing like that in EQ. It's the rule of "first come, first serve". So long as they don't kill-steal you, anyone can do anything. There's no "spawn point" or "mob" that can't be taken if someone else aggro'd it before you.

And that dumbass 60 level with his buddies who pays the same 14 bucks as you per month and who has no life can be a real dick and give you and your buddies grief because he doesn't need that crown but boy he sure went in and got it just to sell it!

I don't have a problem with markets and selling non-epic-related loot. That's fine. That's great. Buy yourself a pony for all I care. But don't grief me. I personally don't think you should be able to loot an epic-related item unless you're the class for the epic. Would certainly keep you from being held hostage to people who you pay 120k to in order to get a no-drop item or have them MQ the thing with you.

But...Air Crowns have always been around this price. We also have the 25k quill cloak MQ and a couple others (Earth Staff can reach 300k + in items on a single MQ.)

While I may not LIKE that it costs 120 k for an air crown, it doesnt necessarily make it unfair between buyer and seller. The mages that cant afford it will need to find alternate routes, such as leading a raid of their own. Air is quite frequently open, and not that difficult. It just takes having friends that find mind helping out.

Thats what EQ is about. Making friends. Thats now alot of people get the funds. For example, one of the mages I sold a crown to got the items to trade to my guild from his guild.

Now, if it was my choice, I would sell them cheap if I got one, on my own. But normally a single person doesn't set the price.

But that isnt to say if someone walked up to me and said "Ill give you 100k" that I wouldnt take it -- I would.

*shrug*

Just because someone will pay it doesn't make it a fair price, or what it should really be valued at.

I'm with Deth. Something like that shouldn't be lootable unless you're the class.

And no, I think someone DEMANDING thatm uch is wrong. But if someone offers that much its different.

And Lalian, 120k total for the scales isnt bad, consivering a mage buying the staff and crown is gonna pay about 300k at least.

A casual player doesn't have the time when he or she gets on to sit around farming loot for ages. A casual player may or may not be able to organize a raid. That doesn't mean the player isn't any less dedicated on the time they *can* be in EQ. It just means they have less time to be dedicated.

He or she shouldn't suffer because they can't devote their entire life to a game.

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Lyinar Ka`Bael Model 2000 was programmed to say:
But that's ridiculous, honestly. A casual player should be able to get their epic just as someone who spends half of their life in the game should.

A casual player doesn't have the time when he or she gets on to sit around farming loot for ages. A casual player may or may not be able to organize a raid. That doesn't mean the player isn't any less dedicated on the time they *can* be in EQ. It just means they have less time to be dedicated.

He or she shouldn't suffer because they can't devote their entire life to a game.

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That makes no sense. If you don't devote the time required to get an item, you obviously won't get it. If you don't have the time to get a crown, it's just too bad really.

If it worked like you suggested (which seems completely illogical without removing all challenge from the game), what would be the advantage to playing alot?

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How.... Lyinar Ka`Bael.... uughhhhhh:
But that's ridiculous, honestly. A casual player should be able to get their epic just as someone who spends half of their life in the game should.

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Why?

I thought 95% of high level stuff wasent doable for casual players. It's just the way the game works.

I'm not saying they shouldn't farm to pay for it, or put time into that. But having to sit and gather up 120K is ridiculous.

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Lyinar Ka`Bael thought about the meaning of life:
So you think it's fair that just because someone doesn't have the time to farm 120K in loot, because that's the gouging price someone has set for an item very important to their class, that they don't deserve their epic?

I'm not saying they shouldn't farm to pay for it, or put time into that. But having to sit and gather up 120K is ridiculous.

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If you can't muster a PoA raid and can't pay for someone else's time in getting the crown, you're SOL. That's the point of epics. You don't need your epic to play.

It's completely fair.

I think in something like this Verant forgets that there *are* casual players, and they can't always do what an uber player does.

That doesn't mean they deserve their epic any less. They dish out that money every month, too.

Classes like the rogue and shaman got off super easy. Unlike Bards, paladins, and magicians...who all have incredibly rare piece(s) to obtain.

I agree with you, it's all about supply and demand. Shaman have a similar example, Malo and Torpor (lvl 60 kunark spells). Both incredibly rare to drop, and both highly sought after by every shaman post lvl55.

I've seen some copies of malo go for over 100k, and people still have bid wars over it.

It's just an unfortunate fact of the game. Of course, mages get rewarded for the hard work because that epic is really friggen uber.

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Lyinar Ka`Bael thought about the meaning of life:
What if you guild is too small for it? Or when the rotation is open, you can't do it?

I think in something like this Verant forgets that there *are* casual players, and they can't always do what an uber player does.

That doesn't mean they deserve their epic any less. They dish out that money every month, too.

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Nope. Wrong.

If you pay $10 to go to a theme park, but don't have time to stand in the line for the most popular roller coaster, you don't get to ride it.

You don't deserve anything apart from being able to play for paying. If epics were accessible to everyone, they'd have to be nerfed, because what's the point of an EPIC if everyone has it?

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Lyinar Ka`Bael painfully thought these words up:
What if you guild is too small for it? Or when the rotation is open, you can't do it?

I think in something like this Verant forgets that there *are* casual players, and they can't always do what an uber player does.

That doesn't mean they deserve their epic any less. They dish out that money every month, too.

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So by that logic because everyone pays the same amount of money, they are entitled to certain equipment?

You keep using that word 'deserve'. IMO you only deserve your epic when you've worked for it; which means putting in the man hours required.

If you can't put in the time you shouldn't get it. Otherwise you'd have level 10 people calling VI saying they desevered Vex thall loot because they pay the monthly fee.

And the quest itself? Okay it's hard, it's long, it takes a lot of work. The prize is all the sweeter when you get it. I'm not going to whine about class balance or equivalency of epics or anything like that.

And your comment about paying to get into a theme park and waiting in line is a good one Za. But it's more like going to Disneyworld, paying to get in, waiting in line at Space Mountain, then being forced to pay Mickey Money to actually get on the ride.

If I worked my ass off to get to 50+, and continue to level up, I've waited in line. I don't need someone with no life fucking with me. I'm willing to work for my cool stuff, but that's what it should be. ME working for MY stuff. Not ME working to pay some other player for MY stuff.

Competition between people getting their mage's epic? Great. I don't mind that at all. Guilds helping their mage get an item? I think that's great! I didn't get a shot this time around but I'll try again.

What annoys me is people of another class selling shit for an epic they can't use. That's wrong. That promotes farming of those items, and priority therefore goes not to people for whom the epic is intended, but instead for people with no life of other classes who want to screw around with people.

But you shouldn't have to devote your life to the game, or have to have rich, powerful friends, to get something like your epic. People have lives and jobs, and can't play EQ 24 hours a day, or sometimes they don't want an uberguild, they want to have fun in their guild and choose something smaller.

I'm not against charging for the crown if it stayed within a reasonable price range. But it won't, because there's nothing to stop vendors in EQ from gouging people. So I find having to gather up 120K for one, single part of your epic as something absolutely ridiculous.

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Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael had this to say about Punky Brewster:
My problem isn't with the epic being difficult. I don't mind the idea of having to camp Quillmane. I don't mind the idea of rounding up people to pull together a PoA raid or whatever's necessary.

And the quest itself? Okay it's hard, it's long, it takes a lot of work. The prize is all the sweeter when you get it. I'm not going to whine about class balance or equivalency of epics or anything like that.

And your comment about paying to get into a theme park and waiting in line is a good one Za. But it's more like going to Disneyworld, paying to get in, waiting in line at Space Mountain, then being forced to pay Mickey Money to actually get on the ride.

If I worked my ass off to get to 50+, and continue to level up, I've waited in line. I don't need someone with no life fucking with me. I'm willing to work for my cool stuff, but that's what it should be. ME working for MY stuff. Not ME working to pay some other player for MY stuff.

Competition between people getting their mage's epic? Great. I don't mind that at all. Guilds helping their mage get an item? I think that's great! I didn't get a shot this time around but I'll try again.

What annoys me is people of another class selling shit for an epic they can't use. That's wrong. That promotes farming of those items, and priority therefore goes not to people for whom the epic is intended, but instead for people with no life of other classes who want to screw around with people.

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Well, Deth, you don't HAVE to pay for the thing. It's just an option.

In the cases of highly contested spawns, I think raiding/camping for a high price MQ can be out of line.

But PoA is almost never raided. It's just more crowns to people that don't have to raid.

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Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about (_|_):
That's not what I meant, Reynar. You should put effort into it.

But you shouldn't have to devote your life to the game, or have to have rich, powerful friends, to get something like your epic. People have lives and jobs, and can't play EQ 24 hours a day, or sometimes they don't want an uberguild, they want to have fun in their guild and choose something smaller.

I'm not against charging for the crown if it stayed within a reasonable price range. But it won't, because there's nothing to stop vendors in EQ from gouging people. So I find having to gather up 120K for one, single part of your epic as something absolutely ridiculous.

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See above. It's an OPTION, it's not a must.

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Lyinar Ka`Bael had this to say about dark elf butts:
But you shouldn't have to devote your life to the game, or have to have rich, powerful friends, to get something like your epic. People have lives and jobs, and can't play EQ 24 hours a day, or sometimes they don't want an uberguild, they want to have fun in their guild and choose something smaller.

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Maybe in your perfect little world you shouldn't. Here on Earth, it works that way, like it should. Game over.

And Deth, when you think about it, Earning the money to buy your stuff is like earning you r stuff by actually looting it. You just earned it a different way.

And if every mage that put some effort into it got their epic, it WOULD be nerfed. Sadly, the mage epic IS the most difficult IMO (cleric comes close with the ragefire camp).

The problem is, if it were made that anyone that put time in to get to level 50 and put forth effort got their epic...there would be far too many epics and they wouldn't hold any sort of prestige. Notice how people dont make a big deal over rogue epics anymore? Thats because they are so insanely common (not to dimish it, its still an accomplishment).

The mage epic is HIGHLY reliant on either a) luck, and lots of it or b) your ability to farm endlessly. If you cant do b, you have to hope for a. I myself went the path of a, and got lucky to not have to camp quillmane (A good friend was willing ot mq the cloak for free with me)

And that brings it to another thing -- if you make good friends, there wont be a problem.

If i remember correctly, I was still working full time at blockbuster when I got my epic, too.

IT boils down to it...if you want something bad enough, you would make time for it.

Now...look at this: I had a guildmate that spend a YEAR on his mage epic. He put ALOT more into it than I did. I got mine in 4 months, and had almost no trouble with most drops that mages find rare. I got VERY lucky. VERY VERY VERY lucky. My guildmate didnt.

In an ideal world, epics would be an item where everyone could do a different quest but get the same end result...and each quest would be difficult but not immensely time consuming so it would be doable by those with little time in alot of small chunks, or those with alot of time in big chunks.

But epics as we speak ARE doable by those that work full time. Ask alot of my guild for example, alot of em have full time jobs and epics

Fal

I am one of the people that got lucky with my epic. Before I got swiftwind, I got a chance to loot the SEoC from Hate.. THE bottleneck of the ranger epic. Instead of looting it (it was a guild raid and I was the only guild ranger, so it was mine) I took a HUGE gamble and deferred it to another ranger that tagged along in hopes for a second stone to drop after I got mine. He had been raiding Hate for months without any luck. So, in doing that, I took a risk on myself in spending months and months in Hate as well.

Well... Lady Luck was with me the whole way through my epic when I truly started on it. First hate raid I went on after I got swiftwind, I was the only ranger and the stone dropped.

All the epics are different, some rely on luck, some rely on time... either way, there is no reason any of the epics should be as easy as some are. Epics are supposed to be something you bust your ass for and basically dance on the ceiling when you get it. Just because you got 50, doesnt immediately mean you should get your epic. Just like getting 60, it is another one of the things in EQ you have to work for to get.

[ 08-18-2002: Message edited by: Pesco ]

Or what about fixing the whole situation and making the crown nodrop and then would the mages be happy? I know as an enchanter I considered my epic doable and probably about the average epic difficulty but there still required places where you had to run a raid or pay off another enchanter so you could get the shissar head in fear.

And for the record... rangers pay ALOT of money for 2 peices of the epic. Jade Reaver runs 20-30k and the Hate Stone is 60-100k. Every epic is doable without paying for an item ( well.. warriors need rebreathers, but that is all I can think of )

Making the crown no drop will not solve the situation, infact, it will probably make it worse.

The Eye of Innoruuk goes for 12 to 15k

Jade Reavers? 15 to 25k.

That damned lev cloak for mages? 20k or so.

it's just a royal pain in the ass. I'm sure there are shamen that MQ the damned fear tears to finish the shaman epic as well.....

"How do I do this?" you ask? Easy: Quit paying so much for them.

If everybody stops paying so much for an item, it will fall in price. The trick is getting everyone to agree with you.

[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: Maradön² ]

On Tunare... Epic Peice selling is rather rare though. Most of the time, people are either there or are brought in. Once guilds are done getting items from a mob they need, they just move on.

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Falaanla Marr thought about the meaning of life:
Actually, with skilled players, it takes MAYBE 15 hours to get to isle 7 in air. And thats doable over a weekend with a camping out overnight in between.

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PoA start to finish in 4 hours, with 18 people =)

We had the advantage of a veteran PoA monk puller however.

If they're going to raid an area that has your classes epic drop, but they're short on that class, cut a deal and ask if you can get that peice and you'll go. Did that with Heroes when they raided Chardok.

Have friends that'll help you on short notice. Did that with Tangrin and Verina Tomb(a 1 50-55 grouper).

It's all about knowing your stuff and getting people to help you out.

Edit:
And don't get in a "HAVE TO FINISH IT NOW!" mindset. My epic went over the course of 9 months, from 45->56->54 Damn that Fear Raid of doom.

[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: Skaw ]

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There was much rejoicing when Dr. Pvednes, PhD said this:
It's called an epic for a reason.

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Yes.

PoA took a weekend... PoH was a Friday Night... Hole was on another weekend... other peices across varios weekends and weekday nights. I think I did VS on a Thursday.

There is no reason a casual gamer cant get their epic. Just devote time on the weekends to do it.

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Reynar attempted to be funny by writing:
Unfortunatly VI did not think thing through when making Everquest.

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There we go.

Edit: This is a humor disclaimer.

[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: Commie Nwist ]