This is also a discussion thread 
Ask away, I am making dinner and eating for the next while, I will be here to answer. And I will check back between games
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Vorago's Warcraft 3 Tips and Tricks
The Basics
~ Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade! This cannot be stressed enough. Early on, the level 1 upgrades are cheaper than your basic units, and upgrade while you are making more units.
~ Towers of any kind are not a defence of their own unless you waste enough money that could have been used to make a titanic army instead. And if you do, your towers cannot walk around and take expansions and kill creeps. Towers are meant to be used as support for your army, a slight deterrent, and a way to buy your base time until your army can return to defend
~ Your hero is not an army. Your hero is support for your army. Your hero improves your army, adding to their damage, and making them stronger
~ Watch the battles. If the opponent sends all of his army to kill your hero, run your hero around in circles. While he is needlessly chasing you, your army will be inflicting massive damage upon his. If you are close to death, run a screen from your army and town portal away. Saving you, and leaving your army to clean up.
~ While melee units are nice, if you have so many that units are not fighting, but standing around trying to find an opening, they would be better used as ranged units or spell casters
~ Spells that have a target or emit from the hero (Blizzard, Shockwave) are ineffective against melee units, and very effective against ranged units and spell casters
~ Spells that center around the hero (Warstomp, Thunderclap) are very effective against melee units, but very ineffective against ranged units
~ Plan your skills accordingly against your opponent. If you are against night elves, expect a lot of ranged units. Against orc? Prepare for melee.
Expansions
~ Never wait until the first runs out. Ever.
~ For best results, start an expansion before going over 40 supply. The longer you wait, the harder it is to save up the gold for one, so start soon.
~ Never leave an expansion undefended. Leave a couple towers, and an orc burrow if applicable.
~ Use the town hall itself as a barrier for the defenses. Force units to run around the town hall to each the towers, which spreads them out and leaves them very open to a town portal entry by your hero and army.
~ Use burrows/militia. They are invaluable on defence
~ Place the town hall against trees if possible. It provides a nice U shaped wall for your turrets to be placed within.
~ Expansions provide a fresh and much closer supply of lumber. If your main lumber begins to dry out, consider re-locating to your expansion.
~ Hit enemy expansions as quick as possible. If you cannot, wait until you get the Gold mine is running low message to hit it. This puts the opponent in a very bad money spot, since his expansion wont be bringing in money with his peons getting attacked. If you are lucky, he will spend his town hall money on forces to try and save his expansion, thus crippling him further
Creeps
~ Creeps provide gold for your economy, experience for your hero and items for your hero. Always kill them whenever possible
~ Damaged units are a weak spot in your army, if possible, send summoned units in first to become the targets, and then support with your paid units.
~ If units begin to take damage, back them off for a moment and send them back in so the creep acquires a new target. This will spread the damage out among all of your troops. 30hp of damage on 6 units heals faster than 180hp of damage on a single unit
~ Beware of creeps that cast spells. An Ogre Lord is a lower level than a granite golem, but will inflict far more damage on your army with shockwave and war stomp then the golem will by melee.
~ Kill the healers first
Items
~ If you cannot use an item, attack it to destroy it. No point giving your opponent free items for your hard work.
~ Always use tomes. If inventory is full, drop an item (Right click, then left click), pick it up, read it, and get the item you dropped back
~ Agility gives all heroes an armour bonus. This is not mentioned in game to my knowledge. 2 Agility = 1 Armour. If the agility comes from a tome, it changes base armour, agility form an item is shown as a +bonus next to it.
~ Goblin Land Mines early on can ensure a couple of easy high-level creep kills. Ogre Lords, Granite Golems and such. Much experience, gold and high level items result. An Inferno Stone (Summon Infernal) 5 minutes into the game is pure hilarity
~ Or you can lure an enemy hero into them with a ranged spell. Place all 3 in a pile, wait a few seconds, and bring him to them. Massive slowdown to his early game
~ Wands of negation are 3 charges of dispel magic. Area of effect, instant skeleton killer, bloodlust, polymorph, slow etc. remover. Instant cast, cheap to buy.
Spell Casters
~ Stasis traps work as follows. You stick one in the ground; the large circle is how big its explosion is. It wont do anything yet, and can be attacked. It is arming itself. After 10 seconds it goes inviz, now its ready. If an enemy unit comes within near contact of it, it turns visible for several seconds, and then stuns all units in the before mentioned area for a whopping 12 seconds. Heroes are stunned for a far shorter time, which make them excellent for luring into the traps. Once the trap goes off, charge your army in to deal as much damage as you can until the stun wears off.
~ All casters are useful, just some are far more useful than the other. Undead is an excellent example of this, with necros being far better than banshees. Banshees are still good, but the necros just surpass them in every way
~ Casters still deal decent damage and are ranged. Do not take them lightly. Shamans especially, which are one of the highest damage casters in the game.
~ You can click a spell icon such as Raise Skeleton to force your necros to make skeletons over attacking. They auto-cast, but tend to want to get in a few whacks before making backup.
~ On that note, you can load meat wagons with corpses, and unload during a big fight, or in his expansion, to generate whopping 32 skeletons in short order
~ Upgrading casters is always good. On top of better casting abilities, they do more melee damage. Plus the first upgrade doesnt even cost lumber
~ Bloodlust is pretty much necessary. It is that good.
~ Ditto on Skeletons
[ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: Vorago ]
All opinions expressed within the thread are mine. You are welcome to not use anything I say, this is just what I do/think/believe
(Thanks Vorago)
And now, to pose Vorago with several queries!
quote:
Sentow impressed everyone with:
And now, to pose Vorago with several queries!
- Recon! What're good ways to do it early on with Humans?
- Would you say that it's good to be ready and able to expand before the first gametime night is over? If not, should it be earlier/later/whenever I feel like it?
- Repelling pinprick strikes with level 1 heroes (like a KotG running in and Ensnaring Peons). Outside of Storm Bolt and assorted other Stun/Snare style abilities, what can be done against it?
[EDIT] I forgot a list thingy.
...
I'm so wasted, I'm SO wasted!
1) Convert a single peon to militia. They get improved run speed. Use it to scout. or water elemetals if a small map
2) I believe in expanding before going over 40 supply personally. No set time, whenever feels right. Right after a repelled attack or whenever
3) Orc burrows and a tower or two are nice repellents. Stun is nice yes, but the easiest method is to just make tower and drop a peon or two into some burrows to keep him away. He will get too low to make a return trip. And a single ensnare wont kill a peon
quote:
ACES! Another post by Sentow:
Shamelessly C&Ped from another thread
Hey, it keeps things organized, and your questions might be someone else's questions
quote:
1) Convert a single peon to militia. They get improved run speed. Use it to scout.
O_o
INGENIOUS! 
quote:
Hey, it keeps things organized, and your questions might be someone else's questions
Well nyah on you 
Anyway, I have another question. Ho-ho!
Flyers! Useful all the time, or only if the opponent is building mass quantities of a single unit type? Huntresses, DotT, Grunts, et al.
quote:
Sentow spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Well nyah on youAnyway, I have another question. Ho-ho!
Flyers! Useful all the time, or only if the opponent is building mass quantities of a single unit type? Huntresses, DotT, Grunts, et al.
Most flyers do pretty much nothing against ground
Gargoyles are the worst for that
Chimereas an exception of course
Mainly i use air to counter air, although gyrocoptors with the bombs upgrade can dish out some ok damage against melee units
Some people like Hippogryph riders... but I don't, too much supply for an archer with more hp for my liking
Wyvern Riders and Griffon Riders are good units, but they get chewed up if anti-air is turned on them
GOD DAMN THAT WAS A LONG SENTENCE!
Herhem, anyway. Thoughts?
Now, Chimaeras are great support for this, long range, and splash damage
Gyros need to fly right over the unit, and riders/riders both need to enter ranged unit range. Even shamsns tear them up, thanks to the heavy armour
A few air can still be effective though, especially if the guy doesn't expect it. Griffon Riders are rather impressive against Taurans
quote:
Vorbis of Pie wrote this stupid crap:
For low levels (such as 1 - 6) I have encounted tons of rushers. How would I deal with them?
Well, make sure in the beginning to be always making units
A good offense is a great defense
Make farms a bit early so you don't need to stop and wait
A tower or two behind your barracks/alter/farms etc. works wonders, even a single one
As orc, place orc burrows at strategic points. One right next to the gold miners, one by the lumber ones, a couple in flanking positions for your watch tower etc.
Creep quickly and safely. Don't let your units get damaged if possible. The extra gold boosts your economy, and the bigger your hero the easier it is to counter
Remember to keep making units, you get reinforcements a HELL of a lot faster than he does
If you are human, use militia.
Build your buildings defensively. Towers behind important buildings, use farms as walls for towers and such. Give his units as hard a time as possible getting in
The buildings provide cover against melee, and if the units close in, you can call in the miltia to assist your footmen
The units, rather than try and hack through the farms, will try and get the towers. Then you swarm in with your army
While you are beating them up, your towers are adding in a lot of damage with no danger
Oh, and the blacksmith in the back keeps the units from circling around. It walls in between the trees and the town hall [ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: Vorago ]
What should I focus on besides massing Huntresses?
I played a game today where my opponent kept attacking me. My huntresses vs his huntresses, luckily I kept moonwell healing my Priestess and made him retreat several times. I trained up druids of the claws, made them go into bear form and killed his Demon Hunter several times, causing him to leave.
I have a replay of it... it just seems I was always on defending, and that's not good.
[ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: nem-x ]
edit: Faster Resource Gathering
I actually tried this, and it does indeed work. Your fourth peon gets to the mine a split second before the third exits the mine.
Good question
Never play the NEs much
I would say, use Chimaeras as a siege breaker
Chims hit all units around the target
And the Trueshot aura adds some pretty crazy damage to them
And then add Roar too, heh
He attacks with hunts, you keep some druids/hunts as ground support, and chew them up with the Chims maybe?
Never tried it though, heh
Currently, I don't even bother researching cannabalize or ghoul frenzy, since I find myself using ghouls much as I used human peasants - as wood choppers and last-line town defense.
I think about the combat potential of ghouls, but the little buggers drop like flies and crowd so much they're really hard to micromanage.
They aren't even cheap or abundant enough to use as zerglings.
Crypt fiends only cost a little more, are way more durable, have a ranged attack, and do that fancy web thing. [ 07-29-2002: Message edited by: Maradön² ]
Level 9 opponent...
Didn't know what Earthquake was, claimed he beat single player (Thrall anyone?)
And then commented "lol, the only strat I know is pure crypt fiends"
On a note, I not only beat his fiends, I completely chewed them up.
I had the ultimate Tauran Chieftan, heh
He had a Cloak of Flames, Lion Horn of Stormwind (+1 armour aura) and Scourge Bone Chimes (Vampiric Aura)
quote:
A sleep deprived Maradön² stammered:
The enigma that is Ghouls continues to plague me.Currently, I don't even bother researching cannabalize or ghoul frenzy, since I find myself using ghouls much as I used human peasants - as wood choppers and last-line town defense.
I think about the combat potential of ghouls, but the little buggers drop like flies and crowd so much they're really hard to micromanage.
They aren't even cheap or abundant enough to use as zerglings.
Crypt fiends only cost a little more, are way more durable, have a ranged attack, and do that fancy web thing.
Heck, I would get frenzy just FOR lumber
Increased run speed and attack rate is your friend
Yes, but ghouls attack a LOT faster. They make better necro companions.
I mean, I would use Abominations over either of them anyways
I don't mind ghouls, they are like zerglings, small, fast and expendable
They don't crowd NEARLY as much as other units at least
A level 3 vampiric aura is what best keeps them alive
Undead vs Human. I haven't seen it, but the guy who hosts it gave it a 10 out of 10...which he *rarely* does.
For Nem -
Night Elf vs Night Elf :
Most level 1-6 Night Elven players will mass Huntresses and do nothing else. The best way to combat this tactic is to use one well balanced group of Hunts , Dryads , Archers and Claw Druids. Effective use of roar, and the dryad's slow-poison = ass kicking for the guy who went for nothing but Hunts.
The other option is to go for pure air , Hippo Riders + Chimeras, but they're food-expensive and more of a mid-end game counter than early on.
Expanding and upgrading quickly to get a well balanced group is probably the best bet, and is what I use whenever I come up against a fellow NE player.
http://www.warcraftiii.net/betabuzz/reports.php?show=578
That's my general NE strategy, and it works fairly well.
quote:
Verily, Vorago doth proclaim:
Heck, I would get frenzy just FOR lumberIncreased run speed and attack rate is your friend
Yes, but ghouls attack a LOT faster. They make better necro companions.
Oh, I guess that would speed up lumber harvesting now wouldn't it...
Still, for Necro companions, I just use meat wagons. More corpses, more useful unit, and since they're my second wave they don't have to deal with melee anyway.
quote:
Delidgamond impressed everyone with:
http://ftp.progamer.ru/demos/war3/rotd/2907/gen-hot.w3gUndead vs Human. I haven't seen it, but the guy who hosts it gave it a 10 out of 10...which he *rarely* does.
That replay rocked
ALthough the human should have won
Heck, he had more points than his opponent by the end, heh
He wiped out an entire base with just the arch magi and mountain king, heh
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
quote:
Judge Gydyon had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
I am not very good. Please fix me.
Well, do you have any replays of you playing?
If not, play a game, and then send it to me/ e-mail it to me
I will watch it, and see if there is any advice I can give
What is usually the problem? Does the opponent just always have more units? [ 07-30-2002: Message edited by: Vorago ]
quote:
Vorago had this to say about dark elf butts:
What is usually the problem? Does the opponent just always have more units?
I generally play undead and orc.
The opponent seems to always have more units quicker, which generally results in me playing on my heels for the whole game, or bumping up to High Upkeep.
I think I tower too much, but I can't figure out how to have an effective base defense along with an effective attack force to creep and attack their expansions/bases.
I can send you a replay later..... [ 07-30-2002: Message edited by: Judge Gydyon ]
Thinking about your posts
(and billing you for it) since 2001
I only won those because someone got disconnected early on..
But I have the Sentow vs me and the Kat Vs me if you'd like to take a look and give me some advice.
I watched that one of you vs NE, and I was AMAZED at what a farseer could do. Feralspirit2win.
quote:
Judge Gydyon had this to say about Knight Rider:
I generally play undead and orc.The opponent seems to always have more units quicker, which generally results in me playing on my heels for the whole game, or bumping up to High Upkeep.
I think I tower too much, but I can't figure out how to have an effective base defense along with an effective attack force to creep and attack their expansions/bases.
I can send you a replay later.....
When we did the 2vs2 with Sentow a while back, I noticed you had more towers then you did army
As Undead, you will have towers, it's just expected, being their food supply and everything. But they aren't good enough to warrant much use outside of supply.
Your best defense is your. The real trick is deciding when a town portal is required or not.
Don't be afraid to use our scroll, you can just buy a replacement later on
But necromancers are still better.
Gydyon:
With undead, if you want to be quick, be sure to make a crypt, altar, and ziggurat at the beginning with one acolyte. Once from there get two more acolytes and you should be running pretty quick.
I find base defenses genereally only good for warding off rushes...late game they're generally only okay (Unless it's brilliantly made, and your opponent is dumb :P)
1) They buy your army time to return and fight the big fight
2) They provide additional damage while your army is engaged
They are not a defense by themselves. A single catapult renders them useless. You want them there to do a little damage, but to keep the enemy away from important buildings while you get your army back to the base. Once you are fighting, they add additional damage to the enemy, giving you much greater odds to winning the fight.
