EverCrest Message Forums
You are not logged in. Login or Register.
Author
Topic: Are NWN Wizards overpowered?
Kennatsu
hu�mor 1. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer skilled at crafting humor.
posted 06-26-2002 06:50:14 PM
In the beginning, I chose a human wizard using the recommended stats... well, 'cept I removed a bit from wisdom and charisma to get 13 strength. I chose dual wielding and power attack as my starting feats....

Now the wizard is level 10, has a Cleric henchman, an Ice Mephit(outsider, True Neutral), and a Dire Bear as a pet. She's found herself taking on and defeating creatures with the "Impossible" challenge rating using a lot of offensive spells and crossbow bolts while the Cleric, Mephit and Bear keeps that enemy busy. After the battle she has to retrieve her Cleric, and resummon both her familiar and bear but a creature deemed "Impossible" shouldn't be easily beaten by a Wizard and her small feeble band....

/me is rambling again

KaLourin
Illanae's Stooge!
posted 06-26-2002 06:59:56 PM
It's all for the game. the PnP version isn't nearly as powerful.

in the tabletop rpg, Summoned creatures dont stick around until they die or you rest.

bad things happen if your familiar dies

you also dont have the games array of familiars available until higher levels.

Given that, they had to power some classes up in order to make them playable, considering... and I might be wrong.. you only have 1 henchman at any given time.

tabletop rpg wizzie would have atleast 3-6 other players alongside him.

Dont make me slap you so hard your bucket spins around, and around,and stops sideways,thus confusing you, and making you run about London wearing your bucket, a g-string, and carrying a stick,smacking the ground while yelling "MAGICALLY DELICIOUS! MAGICALLY FUCKING DELICIOUS!"- {Tal} to Mortious
Hebrew 9:3- 'And the Lord said unto me, "Dude, there isn't a K in covenant."' - Snoota

This beer drops trou and fucks your mouth with pure hoppy goodness. - Karnaj
Tristan
Vidi, vici, veni.
Nae's Stooge
posted 06-26-2002 07:18:21 PM
They fucked Wizzys up in NWN.

The biggest thing was the familiar changes, because now your familiar dieing is no biggy.

that haveing been said, the "challenge ratings" make things seem far harder then they are.

Veni, vidi, vici
Skaw
posted 06-26-2002 07:47:24 PM
Familiars dieing can be a bastard if your in a large fight with low HP Forget how much damage they can do if you die. Think 1d6.
Tristan
Vidi, vici, veni.
Nae's Stooge
posted 06-26-2002 07:52:07 PM
quote:
Skaw had this to say about Duck Tales:
Familiars dieing can be a bastard if your in a large fight with low HP Forget how much damage they can do if you die. Think 1d6.

Thats WAY better then loseing 200 XP per level, plus not being able to summon another one for a year and a day.

Veni, vidi, vici
Lalian Viajante
Pancake
posted 06-26-2002 07:53:33 PM
I've won in impossible battles with my Fighter/Rogue before. That's not just a wizard thing. I think that some of the items are ridiculously broken and that leads to some major overpowering. For example, any kind of save bonus seems to stack. In D&D you could only get one kind of bonus of this type to stack (all are enhancement I believe). My character has 2 Rings of Resistance +3 and a Cloak of Fortification +3. That's +9 to all saves! Even will saves are not a problem. That should not stack. Also another case in point is the Boots of Speed, granting Haste as the spell. In D&D, they work 10 min per day. In NWN, they work all the time.

[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: Lalian Viajante ]

Skaw
posted 06-26-2002 07:54:58 PM
Nope. Tried equipping to Natural AC+ items. Wouldn't let me.

Your also compairing Real Time combat to Turn Based on the haste thing. Thats not an easy thing to do.

[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: Skaw ]

Talonus
Loner
posted 06-26-2002 08:03:48 PM
Game itself is too easy IMHO. Only one dungeon in Chapter 3 really challenged me at all. My fighter and monk/fighter henchman blew through everything. The SP is supposed to be easy so as to introduce new players to the D&D characters. The game is really going to rely on mudles, as long as you can find a decent module and DM.
Willias
Pancake
posted 06-26-2002 08:34:54 PM
Well, I have played through about halfway through chapter two with one other player (a dwarven fighter with a cleric henchman) and the game is WAY too easy. I just load up on AOE spells and cast them all until what we are fighting is dead. Impossible fights last about 3 minutes tops and the worst thing that happens is that my familiar and/or my summoned creature (IF I have one) dies. We have very few deaths, and since both of our henchman are on ranged attack mode, they don't die anymore either.
Damn it gets boring.
Black
The Outlaw Torn
posted 06-26-2002 08:36:58 PM
YOU CAN CHANGE THE DIFFICULTY LEVEL.


Time was never on my side.
So on I wait my whole lifetime.

Talonus
Loner
posted 06-26-2002 08:37:41 PM
quote:
The Black Mage... wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
YOU CAN CHANGE THE DIFFICULTY LEVEL.

I had it set to max difficulty and was still easy. I played without a henchman, and it was still easy. So bah!

Za’afiel
Coolest Hamster Pimp Ever!
posted 06-26-2002 08:41:14 PM
quote:
Talonus had this to say about the Spice Girls:
I had it set to max difficulty and was still easy. I played without a henchman, and it was still easy. So bah!

Multiplayer2win

"Consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds."
-Ralph Waldo Emerson
Talonus
Loner
posted 06-26-2002 08:46:14 PM
quote:
Hamster Mack Boo had this to say about Robocop:
Multiplayer2win

Well, given the fact that the game was released a week ago there's not exactly a plethora of modules yet. And the base campaign is still easy, even in mulitplayer.

Steven Steve
posted 06-26-2002 09:22:52 PM
But can you kill them by YOURSELF? Is it the wizards that are overpowered... or their PETS?
"Absolutely NOTHING [will stop me from buying Diablo III]. I will buy it regardless of what they do."
- Grawbad, Battle.net forums

"Don't want to sound like a fanboy, but I am with you. I'll buy it for sure, it's just a matter of for how long I will be playing it..."
- Silvast, Battle.net forums

Palador ChibiDragon
Dismembered
posted 06-26-2002 11:16:28 PM
You may be powerful now, but so is a Wizard in PnP games. Once you get Fireball and Lightning Bolt, Wizards start to dish out some real damage.

However, something with good MR is gonna show you a new place to store a magical rod, if you know what I mean.

I believe in the existance of magic, not because I have seen proof of its existance, but because I refuse to live in a world where it does not exist.
Taylen
Pancake
posted 06-27-2002 12:12:58 AM
Wizards arn't overpowered in PnP because a single wizard can't really run around doing everything. They still need a party at high levels to keep the nasty stuff off them and kill the magic immune or resistant creatures.
"When correctly viewed, everything is lewd." - Tom Lehrer.
Sadomasochism: It's Fun!
Taylen Ashenbow
Rangers never run we mearly stratigically retreat.
Thats not a train thats a pull, my trains are always much bigger.
Cap'n Elethi
I'm too sexy for my shirt, too sexy for my shirt...
posted 06-27-2002 01:41:58 AM
Another thing that makes NWN easier than PnP DnD ( Or single player at least) is that there is no DM. The DM can always find a way to take down that too-powerful fighter or that overpowered mage a peg or two.

There isn't anyone to regulate it in NWN. Its also easier to min/max because the rules are laid out in front of you.

Elethi Rian, A Man Of Many Talents
Dr Cysa
Angsty Mcangst
posted 06-27-2002 01:47:15 AM
nah, Wizards aren't over powered...none of the classes are. My fighter cleaves creature of over powering challenge rating left and right..then he was corrupted....DAMN YOU SALTY PRETZEL OF TASTEYNESS!
I don't discriminate...I hate everyone.
KaLourin
Illanae's Stooge!
posted 06-27-2002 07:41:01 AM
Point of note I saw in one of these threads?

How do you manage to get multiple henchmen? everytime I hire one, it replaces the old one.

Dont make me slap you so hard your bucket spins around, and around,and stops sideways,thus confusing you, and making you run about London wearing your bucket, a g-string, and carrying a stick,smacking the ground while yelling "MAGICALLY DELICIOUS! MAGICALLY FUCKING DELICIOUS!"- {Tal} to Mortious
Hebrew 9:3- 'And the Lord said unto me, "Dude, there isn't a K in covenant."' - Snoota

This beer drops trou and fucks your mouth with pure hoppy goodness. - Karnaj
Black
The Outlaw Torn
posted 06-27-2002 08:48:54 AM
quote:
This one time, at Ka'Lourin D'thBlayde camp:
How do you manage to get multiple henchmen?
You don't.


Time was never on my side.
So on I wait my whole lifetime.

Reynar
Oldest Member
Best Lap
posted 06-27-2002 01:46:16 PM
FYI, if you have already installed the patch; monsters are a ton easier as they will not use their special attacks.

Make a dragon and all it will do is melee you.

That first patch changed their AI somehow, one of the Bioware guys said it was an obvious mistake, should be fixed next patch.

Reinstall the game and do not run the patch, and you'll find it much more difficult.

[ 06-27-2002: Message edited by: Reynar ]

"Give me control of a nation's money, and I care not who makes its laws."
-Mayer Rothschild
Faelynn LeAndris
Lusty busty redheaded wood elf with sharp claws
posted 06-27-2002 02:26:29 PM
My Ranger tears things to shreds, my Socrceress gets her ass handed to her.

It's too out of whack minus intervention, but thats kinda what you'd expect. NWN's real guts live in its module/builder abilities, and player run gaming. The SP campaign is for those new to DnD or who have never played PnP before.

Player regulation will change a lot of things, which is the main point behind NWN.


My LAUNCHCast Station
"Respect the Forest, Fear the Ranger"
I got lost for an hour and became god.
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 06-27-2002 02:40:40 PM
High level PnP comes down to init and range. Wizards have lots of nice long range attacks. If the tank is too far out of melee, they're screwed on the level of "make a Reflex save or Die instantly". On the OTHER hand, a Warrior in melee with a wizard, or a particularly good ranger/archer sort pulling a run and gun (move/attack) can disrupt casting. Or has a decent chance of it. At that point it's init. Wizard wins...start rolling your save now. They don't have to hit you directly. Just have to hit within five feet of you for some of those explosive, fiery AOE spells (or electrical, or sonic, or acid...some feats are vicious).

A monk with high strike bonus flurrying attacks on a wizard or sorcerer is their worst nightmare. Bippity Bappity Boppity...at 20th level potentially (without strength bonus) doing a d20 damage per pop (also potentially doing 1 damage per pop hehehe). On the other hand...I Ja`Deth the wizard summon a horde of crap to keep you busy. Then I nuke. Repeatedly. Every round.

Tactics are your friend. One of the reasons I love 3e.

Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

Kennatsu
hu�mor 1. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer skilled at crafting humor.
posted 06-27-2002 08:23:02 PM
quote:
Reynar wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
FYI, if you have already installed the patch; monsters are a ton easier as they will not use their special attacks.

Make a dragon and all it will do is melee you.

That first patch changed their AI somehow, one of the Bioware guys said it was an obvious mistake, should be fixed next patch.

Reinstall the game and do not run the patch, and you'll find it much more difficult.



Arrgh.. so that's why it's gotten so much easier allofasudden!

Kennatsu
hu�mor 1. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer skilled at crafting humor.
posted 06-27-2002 08:28:29 PM
My Wizard is also dual wielding two +1 daggers, and when she's out of spells she can dish out some damage (not as much as melee classes). Still, her pet would be overpowered (Outsiders have damage reduction, I think...)
All times are US/Eastern
Hop To: