However, it appears not to be on any news sites.
Hrm.
At the moment, no one's really sure if the reports are true. [ 04-09-2002: Message edited by: Adrecia ]
I don't think CNN could've picked more objective sources to interview either...
::grumbles:: [ 04-09-2002: Message edited by: Tier ]
quote:
Tier had this to say about Pirotess:
Oh, look at the ethics people whining. Christ, even if it's false, there has to be a first to all research, no
They kicked up the same stink over IVF a few years back. Cloning will become normal. It's only a matter of time.
"It's something even the Masters don't reveal about the hidden nature of the universe... the deepest and darkest of all that the Force lets you see... the universe has a sense of humour." Callista, Children of the Jedi
quote:
StarShadow had this to say about Cuba:
Cloning will become normal. It's only a matter of time.
Yes, I'm afraid so.
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Tarquinn said:
Yes, I'm afraid so.
Ethics are the bane of technological/medical/etc advancements. If it wasn't for ethics, we would get alot more done. In the middle ages it was the church stopping people, now it's the ethics fighters.
But I also see the darker uses of this technolgy and I'm afraid of them.
Explain this to me...exactly what is so bad about "superhumans"?
quote:
We were all impressed when Giantt wrote:
Explain this to me...exactly what is so bad about "superhumans"?
theY ARE SUPAR HUMANS WOH ARENT HURT BY the BULlETS!!!!!1
And I wasn't necessarily talking about superhumans.
If we can clone humans, why shouldn't we clone us our personal force of labourers, doing the most dangerous and most boring types of work for us while we, the 'normal' humans, benefit from their work?
What would we get?
A strong two class society, with us normal humans enjoying our lives while the clones would wash our dirty laundry for us.
Going into genetics, why shouldn't someone create the superhuman you have mentioned?
More intelligent, stronger and I don't know what than us 'normal' humans.
What would happen if all new born could be modified to be 'super' as long as you can pay for it?
A strong two class society, just with us 'normal' humans being the bottomfeeders this time.
Why shouldn't someone clone his personal army, taking his most capable elite super soldier and clone him one thousand times ... or one million times?
What would happen?
What could happen?
(Yes I'm aware that this all won't happen in the near future, but it still scares me.
And I'm also aware of the fact that you can abuse almost anythging ever invented by man.
Hell, you can make a lethal weapon out of toothpaste! But some technolgies are easier abused than others ... can change humanity more than others. And cloning is one of them.)
Might I suggest watching the movie "GATTACA"? [ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Tarquinn ]
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Tarquinn was all like:
A strong two class society.And I wasn't necessarily talking about superhumans.
If we can clone humans, why shouldn't we clone us our personal force of labourers, doing the most dangerous and most boring types of work for us while we, the 'normal' humans, benefit from their work?
What would we get?
A strong two class society, with us normal humans enjoying our lives while the clones would wash our dirty laundry for us.
Going into genetics, why shouldn't someone create the superhuman you have mentioned?
More intelligent, stronger and I don't know what than us 'normal' humans.
What would happen if all new born could be modified to be 'super' as long as you can pay for it?A strong two class society, just with us 'normal' humans being the bottomfeeders this time.
Why shouldn't someone clone his personal army, taking his most capable elite super soldier and clone him one thousand times ... or one million times?What would happen?
What could happen?
(Yes I'm aware that this all won't happen in the near future, but it still scares me.
And I'm also aware of the fact that you can abuse almost anythging ever invented by man.
Hell, you can make a lethal weapon out of toothpaste! But some technolgies are easier abused than others ... can change humanity more than others. And cloning is one of them.)Might I suggest watching the movie "GATTACA"?
I've grown egoistical from living in a socialistic-to-the-extreme country. I'm not going to argue my points lest I be flamed.
quote:
Giantt had this to say about Duck Tales:
I've grown egoistical from living in a socialistic-to-the-extreme country. I'm not going to argue my points lest I be flamed.
Why should I flame you or your arguments?
Are they that bad?
Same thinking with nukes...basically, ethics, or more likely, just plain intellegence, will have to step in and limit the ability to create clones.
quote:
Lenlalron had this to say about Robocop:
Clones will be used for war. Basically, the first country that can mass produce clones will win. YOu know that they'll do crazy things with them...and they won't 'care' because they're not 'real lives'.Same thinking with nukes...basically, ethics, or more likely, just plain intellegence, will have to step in and limit the ability to create clones.
Nukes aren't used out of fear. If you send off a nuke, you will be nuked yourself. A nuclear war has no winners, only one side will lose more than the other.
quote:
How.... Giantt.... uughhhhhh:
Nukes aren't used out of fear. If you send off a nuke, you will be nuked yourself. A nuclear war has no winners, only one side will lose more than the other.
Uh, that's why I said that nukes needed/were limited. Fear of nuclear war.
quote:
Tarquinn had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
A strong two class society, with us normal humans enjoying our lives while the clones would wash our dirty laundry for us.
Wouldn't the U.S.A anti-slavery laws prevent that?
quote:
Kagrama's unholy Backstreet Boys obsession manifested in:
Wouldn't the U.S.A anti-slavery laws prevent that?
Someone will point out that clones aren't really (normal) humans or people will sell their clones because they're a part of them, much like selling an internal organ .... or something like that.
If they see an advantge in it, people WILL find a way around it.
And what would the U.S.A do when every country WITHOUT those laws are clonig their cheap workers?
Stay behind?
I don't think so.
quote:
ACES! Another post by Kagrama:
Wouldn't the U.S.A anti-slavery laws prevent that?
I doubt it'd be that dramatic, but, it would be slavery, without 'technically' being slavery.
quote:
Tarquinn's fortune cookie read:
Someone will point out that clones aren't really (normal) humans
They're still humans, though. There will, hopefully, be at least a few smart guys left at the white house who will figure out that cheap cloned labor is inhuman when the time rolls around that human cloning is perfected. Even then, there WILL be strict laws on cloning.
quote:
Tarquinn's fortune cookie read:
And what would the U.S.A do when every country WITHOUT those laws are clonig their cheap workers?
Stay behind?
They'll try to stop it, since there will be a good number of activists who will speak out against the use of cloned labor if the U.S begins using clone workers.
quote:
Kagrama had this to say about Tron:
They're still humans, though. There will, hopefully, be at least a few smart guys left at the white house who will figure out that cheap cloned labor is inhuman when the time rolls around that human cloning is perfected. Even then, there WILL be strict laws on cloningThey'll try to stop it, since there will be a good number of activists who will speak out against the use of cloned labor if the U.S begins using clone workers.
There are plenty of smart people think we should go against it. There aren't plenty of smart people who won't be bribed.
Come on, all about the buck. Companies will make jillions. There will be plenty of bribing.
It just matters how much people care. We tend to be apathetic toward anything, and any group with a view tends to be labeled as radicals. It's hard to mobilize enough people to be really respected.
So...I think it's bleak.
It COULD happen.
It does not have to happen.
it's a good book.
But, I could see the possitive side to cloning. Say you *NEED* a heart transplant. They can clone you an identical (and weed out the bad traits) heart, so no more waiting on a "list" to get one. Just need to wait for the heart to grow (which can be started way before, when they find the problems early on)
Same for any other organ, Even limbs. Maybe, when medical science get's uber enough, they can clone a whole new body for someone who's a para or quadrapalegic... giving them a fully functional body.
Yes there are bad possibilities and there are good. And I think most of the bad fears stem from hollywood alittle to much 
[ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Aanile ]
Do I have faith that people will do the "right" thing? (right according to society and ethics) I donno... Science is it's own reason.
quote:
From the book of Aanile, chapter 3, verse 16:
clone meh a TAIL!
Apparantly a doctor in England has the technology to graft stuff like Tails and wings to humans now
I don't think clones will be considered a part of you or your property. My personal belief is that the clone will develope a different personality or 'soul' than the orginal. Thus it would be a different person who just happens to have the same genetic makeup as the original. Unless you can imprint your 'soul' onto a clone it can not be you.
Just my 2cp worth.
Now, while they're all growing, you'll have to feed them. Food costs money. Cloning costs money. This amount of money wouldn't be easily gotten.
Archers Roxxors!
There's gotta be a woman involved. So before we get an army of clones, we need an army of women to birth them. Seems kinda unlikely unless we find a way to reproduce the birthing process in the lab, which may not come for a very long time.I may be wrong on this, though
Yes, that's right, hot live sex!
quote:
Waisztarroz had this to say about Captain Planet:
They don't just "make" babies in the lab.There's gotta be a woman involved. So before we get an army of clones, we need an army of women to birth them. Seems kinda unlikely unless we find a way to reproduce the birthing process in the lab, which may not come for a very long time.
I may be wrong on this, though
Go watch "The Matrix" or read up on petri dishes?
quote:
Waisztarroz had this to say about Duck Tales:
They don't just "make" babies in the lab.I may be wrong on this, though
That's absolutely right. I had to do a debate on this very topic, and we won, showing just how limited the ethisists imagination is. There is no point creating a clone army because it would be no worse or better than any other army in the world. They would still need to be given 18 years or more of growth, taught by an army of teachers, fed by an army of farmers, and after than there is no guarantee that the clones are even good soldiers.
Considering the amount of money required, and considering the only difference between a clone soldier's life and a normal soldier's life is his conception, you can see that there are far easier and cost effective ways to produce human beings en masse. I think we all know what I'm talking about here...
"It's something even the Masters don't reveal about the hidden nature of the universe... the deepest and darkest of all that the Force lets you see... the universe has a sense of humour." Callista, Children of the Jedi
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Kegwen said:
We don't need cloning for manual labor. We have Mexico for that.
almsot funny
quote:
There was much rejoicing when Elvish Crack Piper said this:
almsot funny
Sad thing is, it's true.
There will never be equality, there will always be an upper class and a lower class. America is the upper class, Mexico is the lower class, and their people are more willing to work for less.
sux
I live near Dalton. It's a fucking fact.
quote:
When the babel fish was in place, it was apparent Giantt said:
Like what? Superhumans?Explain this to me...exactly what is so bad about "superhumans"?
I'm not one. That's pretty much it.
EDIT: And to those of you who think it would be hard to for someone to try to talk a bunch of women into turning themselves into machines for spitting out soldiers for the good of the country...please see World War II and a guy named Adolf Hitler. He had pretty good success with doing that.
-Tok [ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Toktuk ]
Id like to add that no "Clones" will be used as slave labor while I Live and am able to Fire a weapon. Thats what people have been fighting forever, Its the spark that brings out the warrior in everyone good.
quote:
Gork said this about your mom:
Id like to add that no "Clones" will be used as slave labor while I Live and am able to Fire a weapon. Thats what people have been fighting forever, Its the spark that brings out the warrior in everyone good.
Gork, An Army of One.
-Tok
