EverCrest Message Forums
You are not logged in. Login or Register.
Author
Topic: Hiroshima and Nagasaki again?
Azakias
Never wore the pants, thus still wields the power of unused (_|_)
posted 04-03-2002 03:00:57 PM
It sure seems like it... I dunno.

This is pretty long, but interesting, so grab a soda and read.

quote:
The next Pearl Harbor will not announce itself with a searing flash of nuclear light or with the plaintive wails of those dying of Ebola or its genetically engineered twin. You will hear a sharp crack in the distance. By the time you mistakenly identify this sound as an innocent clap of thunder, the civilized world will have become unhinged. Fluorescent lights and television sets will glow eerily bright, despite being turned off. The aroma of ozone mixed with smoldering plastic will seep from outlet covers as electric wires arc and telephone lines melt. Your Palm Pilot and MP3 player will feel warm to the touch, their batteries overloaded. Your computer, and every bit of data on it, will be toast. And then you will notice that the world sounds different too. The background music of civilization, the whirl of internal-combustion engines, will have stopped. Save a few diesels, engines will never start again. You, however, will remain unharmed, as you find yourself thrust backward 200 years, to a time when electricity meant a lightning bolt fracturing the night sky. This is not a hypothetical, son-of-Y2K scenario. It is a realistic assessment of the damage the Pentagon believes could be inflicted by a new generation of weapons--E-bombs.

The first major test of an American electromagnetic bomb is scheduled for next year. Ultimately, the Army hopes to use E-bomb technology to explode artillery shells in midflight. The Navy wants to use the E-bomb's high-power microwave pulses to neutralize antiship missiles. And, the Air Force plans to equip its bombers, strike fighters, cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles with E-bomb capabilities. When fielded, these will be among the most technologically sophisticated weapons the U.S. military establishment has ever built.

There is, however, another part to the E-bomb story, one that military planners are reluctant to discuss. While American versions of these weapons are based on advanced technologies, terrorists could use a less expensive, low-tech approach to create the same destructive power. "Any nation with even a 1940s technology base could make them," says Carlo Kopp, an Australian-based expert on high-tech warfare. "The threat of E-bomb proliferation is very real." POPULAR MECHANICS estimates a basic weapon could be built for $400.


An Old Idea Made New
In the 1980s, the Air Force tested E-bombs that used cruise-missile delivery systems.
PHOTO BY AVAIATION WEEK & AEROSPACE TECHNOLOGY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The theory behind the E-bomb was proposed in 1925 by physicist Arthur H. Compton--not to build weapons, but to study atoms. Compton demonstrated that firing a stream of highly energetic photons into atoms that have a low atomic number causes them to eject a stream of electrons. Physics students know this phenomenon as the Compton Effect. It became a key tool in unlocking the secrets of the atom.

Ironically, this nuclear research led to an unexpected demonstration of the power of the Compton Effect, and spawned a new type of weapon. In 1958, nuclear weapons designers ignited hydrogen bombs high over the Pacific Ocean. The detonations created bursts of gamma rays that, upon striking the oxygen and nitrogen in the atmosphere, released a tsunami of electrons that spread for hundreds of miles. Street lights were blown out in Hawaii and radio navigation was disrupted for 18 hours, as far away as Australia. The United States set out to learn how to "harden" electronics against this electromagnetic pulse (EMP) and develop EMP weapons.

America has remained at the forefront of EMP weapons development. Although much of this work is classified, it's believed that current efforts are based on using high-temperature superconductors to create intense magnetic fields. What worries terrorism experts is an idea the United States studied but discarded--the Flux Compression Generator (FCG).

A Poor Man's E-Bomb
To ignite an E-bomb, a starter current energizes the stator coil, creating a magnetic field. The explosion (A) expands the tube, short-circuiting the coil and compressing the magnetic field forward (B). The pulse is emitted (C) at high frequencies that defeat protective devices like Faraday Cages. ILLUSTRATIONS BY JOHN BATCHELOR.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


An FCG is an astoundingly simple weapon. It consists of an explosives-packed tube placed inside a slightly larger copper coil, as shown here. The instant before the chemical explosive is detonated, the coil is energized by a bank of capacitors, creating a magnetic field. The explosive charge detonates from the rear forward. As the tube flares outward it touches the edge of the coil, thereby creating a moving short circuit. "The propagating short has the effect of compressing the magnetic field while reducing the inductance of the stator [coil]," says Kopp. "The result is that FCGs will produce a ramping current pulse, which breaks before the final disintegration of the device. Published results suggest ramp times of tens of hundreds of microseconds and peak currents of tens of millions of amps." The pulse that emerges makes a lightning bolt seem like a flashbulb by comparison.

An Air Force spokesman, who describes this effect as similar to a lightning strike, points out that electronics systems can be protected by placing them in metal enclosures called Faraday Cages that divert any impinging electromagnetic energy directly to the ground. Foreign military analysts say this reassuring explanation is incomplete.

The India Connection

The Indian military has studied FCG devices in detail because it fears that Pakistan, with which it has ongoing conflicts, might use E-bombs against the city of Bangalore, a sort of Indian Silicon Valley. An Indian Institute for Defense Studies and Analysis study of E-bombs points to two problems that have been largely overlooked by the West. The first is that very-high-frequency pulses, in the microwave range, can worm their way around vents in Faraday Cages. The second concern is known as the "late-time EMP effect," and may be the most worrisome aspect of FCG devices. It occurs in the 15 minutes after detonation. During this period, the EMP that surged through electrical systems creates localized magnetic fields. When these magnetic fields collapse, they cause electric surges to travel through the power and telecommunication infrastructure. This string-of-firecrackers effect means that terrorists would not have to drop their homemade E-bombs directly on the targets they wish to destroy. Heavily guarded sites, such as telephone switching centers and electronic funds-transfer exchanges, could be attacked through their electric and telecommunication connections.

Knock out electric power, computers and telecommunication and you've destroyed the foundation of modern society. In the age of Third World-sponsored terrorism, the E-bomb is the great equalizer.


"Age by age have men stood up and said to the world, 'From what has come before me, I was forged, but I am new and greater than my forebears.' And so each man walks the world in ruin, abandoned and untried. Less than the whole of his being"
Tarquinn
Personally responsible for the decline of the American Dollar
posted 04-03-2002 03:09:24 PM
quote:
Goldeneye
Tina Turner

See reflections on the water
more than darkness in the depths
see him surface in every shadow
on the wind I feel his breath

Goldeneye I found his weakness
Goldeneye he'll do what I please
Goldeneye no time for sweetness
but a bitter kiss will bring him to his knees

You'll never know how I watched you
from the shadows as a child
you'll never know how it feels to be the one
who's left behind
You'll never know the days, the nights,
the tears, the tears I've cried
but now my time has come
and time, time is not on your side

See him move through smoke and mirrors
feel his presence in the crowd
other girls they gather around him
if I had him I wouldn't let him out

Goldeneye not lace or leather
Golden chains take him to the spot
goldeneye I'll show him forever
it'll take forever to see
what I've got

You'll never know how I watched you
from the shadows as a child
you'll never know how it feels to be so close
and be denied
It's a gold and honey trap
I've got for you tonight
Revenge it's a kiss, this time I won't miss
now I've got you in my sight
With a Goldeneye, golden, goldeneye
with a goldeneye, goldeneye.


~Never underestimate the power of a Dark Clown.
Il Buono
You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend.
posted 04-03-2002 03:09:56 PM
Quite a scary possibility.
"Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig."
OtakuPenguin
Peels like a tangerine, but is juicy like an orange.
posted 04-03-2002 03:14:53 PM
That would suck so much ass...
..:: This Is The Sound Of Settling ::..
Maradon!
posted 04-03-2002 03:18:49 PM
It's unlikely that a large scale EM pulse will ever be used as a weapon. It would be impossible to gauge the extent of the damage, and any forign power using the weapon could just as quickly find itself affected.
Vorbis
Vend-A-Goat
posted 04-03-2002 03:21:56 PM
Then, as the last car crackles to a halt, over all the cries and moans, a voice is heard. That is the voice of Isiah, the Amish farmer, as he chuckles softly to himself and proclaims, "Wasn't such a silly idea, now was it?"
Tarquinn
Personally responsible for the decline of the American Dollar
posted 04-03-2002 03:23:01 PM
quote:
Maradön? stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
It's unlikely that a large scale EM pulse will ever be used as a weapon. It would be impossible to gauge the extent of the damage, and any forign power using the weapon could just as quickly find itself affected.

What about anti-technology fanatics, huh?
"Gawd/Aliens/Elvis has told us that technology is the spawn of Satan/Something ...um alien/Cheesecake!!1!"

You know you want to be a farmer!

~Never underestimate the power of a Dark Clown.
Maradon!
posted 04-03-2002 03:42:52 PM
quote:
Dr. Vorbis obviously shouldn't have said:
Then, as the last car crackles to a halt, over all the cries and moans, a voice is heard. That is the voice of Isiah, the Amish farmer, as he chuckles softly to himself and proclaims, "Wasn't such a silly idea, now was it?"

That is SUCH a load of crap!

Living in PA, the Amish Capitol of the World, I can assure you that the Amish depend on technology almost as much as anyone else.

They can and often do ride in cars, so long as a non-amish is driving, thier children have modern toys and often clothes as well since the amish ban on the trappings of modern living isn't imposed until a certain age. They often go to modern hospitals and hang out at modern bars.

Suddar Williams
SUDAR WILAMS
posted 04-03-2002 03:47:40 PM
quote:
Maradön? spewed forth this undeniable truth:
That is SUCH a load of crap!

Living in PA, the Amish Capitol of the World, I can assure you that the Amish depend on technology almost as much as anyone else.

They can and often do ride in cars, so long as a non-amish is driving, thier children have modern toys and often clothes as well since the amish ban on the trappings of modern living isn't imposed until a certain age. They often go to modern hospitals and hang out at modern bars.


I've actually been to Intercourse (that's the Amish city, isn't it? or around there) and yeah, a few "Amish" ride in cars and all that, but most of them were in horse and buggies.

(*shows off his "I <3 Intercourse" t-shirt.*)

Vorbis
Vend-A-Goat
posted 04-03-2002 04:01:22 PM
quote:
Maradön? had this to say about pies:
That is SUCH a load of crap!

Living in PA, the Amish Capitol of the World, I can assure you that the Amish depend on technology almost as much as anyone else.

They can and often do ride in cars, so long as a non-amish is driving, thier children have modern toys and often clothes as well since the amish ban on the trappings of modern living isn't imposed until a certain age. They often go to modern hospitals and hang out at modern bars.


Or you could laugh at a joke.

`Doc
Cold in an Alley
posted 04-03-2002 04:06:45 PM
Wasn't this the plot of Escape From L.A.?
Base eight is just like base ten, really... if you're missing two fingers. - Tom Lehrer
There are people in this world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that! - Tom Lehrer
I want to be a race car passenger; just a guy who bugs the driver. "Say man, can I turn on the radio? You should slow down. Why do we gotta keep going in circles? Can I put my feet out the window? Man, you really like Tide..." - Mitch Hedberg
Please keep your arms, legs, heads, tails, tentacles, pseudopods, wings, and/or other limb-like structures inside the ride at all times.
Please submit all questions, inquests, and/or inquiries, in triplicate, to the Department of Redundancy Department, Division for the Management of Division Management Divisions.

Chalesm
There is no innuendo in this title.
posted 04-03-2002 04:11:46 PM
Well, compared to nuclear weaponry, or even more traditional bombing, I'll take EMP weaponry any day. Think about it. It's the one weapon in existence that can grind a war to a halt, without killing huge numbers of people. Yes, the after-effects would be enormous, especially on a city, but I think a nation that could mobilze fast enough could probably deal with the situation without letting things get too out of hand. Even in a worst-case senario, like a hit on New York, the national guard could likely be mobilized to distribute food and water well before people started dying in mass numbers. Compared to the alternative of more commonly imagined terrorist ultra-weapons, like full-blown nukes or even "dirty" radioactive bombs, which would kill millions or tens of thousands each, respectively, the EMP weaponry presents far less death.
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Douglas Adams, 1952-2001

Mog
not really a mmembe rof tis boered
posted 04-03-2002 04:14:23 PM
quote:
So quoth Suddar Williams:
I've actually been to Intercourse (that's the Amish city, isn't it? or around there) and yeah, a few "Amish" ride in cars and all that, but most of them were in horse and buggies.

(*shows off his "I <3 Intercourse" t-shirt.*)



I went their too in 6th grade, and i swear, that is the bootleg exuse for amsih poeple i ahev ever seen, i mean they had a damn robotical pretsal factory


Regret calamities if you can thereby help the sufferer; if not, attend to your own work and allready the evil begins to be repaired
- Self Rreliance
Suddar Williams
SUDAR WILAMS
posted 04-03-2002 04:19:16 PM
Oh, yeah, not saying they're all that "amish" anymore, they're more like a tourist attraction.

But they do stick to the horse and buggies.

Sentow, Maybe
Pancake
posted 04-03-2002 04:35:32 PM
In related news, France is destroyed by Sin.

Edit: Less is more.

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: Sentow ]

Once more into the breach, my friends, once more. We'll close the wall with our dead. In peace, nothing so becomes a man as modesty and humility, but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with rage and lend the eye a terrible aspect.
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 04-03-2002 04:39:01 PM
Popular Science covered that issue a few months back. What was said was that in an age or precise-targetting missiles that can fly down chimnies and such, you don't necessarily have to have mega-bombs. You just have to hit key locations. Larger-scale bombs would be better to disable fleets of ships moving together.
Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

Skaw
posted 04-03-2002 04:41:58 PM
quote:
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
precise-targetting missiles that can fly down chimnies and such

Am I the only one that found this humorous?

Sentow, Maybe
Pancake
posted 04-03-2002 04:52:03 PM
quote:
Skaw was naked while typing this:
Am I the only one that found this humorous?

Santa Claus is coming... for you!

Once more into the breach, my friends, once more. We'll close the wall with our dead. In peace, nothing so becomes a man as modesty and humility, but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with rage and lend the eye a terrible aspect.
Peter
Pancake
posted 04-03-2002 05:03:45 PM
hmmm Ignoreing the fact that Most senstive electronics can/are shielded from EM interferance, and that anything turned off will be uneffective.
Bloodsage
Heart Attack
posted 04-03-2002 07:23:10 PM
EM weapons are not a panacea, nor are they a scary frankenweapon to give one nightmares.

For various reasons, I won't go into details, but rest assured there's nothing really to fear.

To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

--Satan, quoted by John Milton

Goldom
Pancake
posted 04-03-2002 10:25:14 PM
quote:
The Otaku Penguin had this to say about Knight Rider:
That would suck so much ass...

Better than being nuked....

Goldom Makor the Wizard of the Ro family
Officer of ===Prestige=== guild, on Fennin Ro server
"What in the name of Abashi's Nerf Stick is that?"
I like noodles. Give me noodles and I will be happy. Amen.
Tristan
Vidi, vici, veni.
Nae's Stooge
posted 04-03-2002 10:34:11 PM
quote:
Bloodsage thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
EM weapons are not a panacea, nor are they a scary frankenweapon to give one nightmares.

For various reasons, I won't go into details, but rest assured there's nothing really to fear.


Translation:

BS was in on at least part of the testing process, and saw the bombs flub horrably.

Veni, vidi, vici
Bloodsage
Heart Attack
posted 04-04-2002 02:21:41 PM
Not really.

But part of my job is being a radar/EM expert, so I'm up on a lot of the theory.

There are just a lot of technical problems to overcome when trying to do that on any great scale.

To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

--Satan, quoted by John Milton

Elvish Crack Piper
Murder is justified so long as people believe in something different than you do
posted 04-04-2002 02:52:16 PM
If one of the idea is to Use EMP to knock missle out of flight anddeactivate them, wont it be possible to use just knock said missles out of flight?

And what happenes to people with artificial hearts and such, to those that think an EMP shockwave would be harmless. Anyone hooked up to lifesupport in hospitals would die.

War=Bad Fake War(Ah La CS)=good

We should hook all terrorists up to a/the matrix instead of the death penalty

(Insert Funny Phrase Here)
All times are US/Eastern
Hop To: