All the in game fiction says Necromancers are supposed to be evil dispicable loners! We're underpowered in groups! We need more power in groups! We want to be the socially acceptable evil dispicable loners!
All we ask is balance 
SO STICK THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT! [ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Maradon? ]
Things like this make baby Jesus sadf...
And I said I'd never publically whine again
quote:
Originally posted by Maradon?:
In game lore says Shamans and Druids are supposed to be sociable groupies, and yet they solo as well as or better than we do.All we ask is balance
SO STICK THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT!
Translation: We're not strong enough compared to Druids/Shaman.... waaaaaaaaaah... We should be able to solo the Sleeper and get phat lewtz... we dont wanna have to group and play nice with others... waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah....
Anyone else agree with Maradon that necros are underpowered?
Anyone?
Bueller??
BUELLER???
quote:
Originally posted by AbbigailSD:
Anyone else agree with Maradon that necros are underpowered?
I bet I could come up with 1000 or more folks that think clerics are underpowered...
or monks... or paladins...
This constant whining about "oh class X can do things that we (class Y) cant do" is really beginning to sound more like its coming from kindergarten children playing in the sandpit and arguing over whose turn it is for the plastice spade than mature adults playing a GAME... oh wait.. it IS a game right?? I thought it was...
but maybe I'm wrong.. maybe it's more than a GAME, because sooooooooo many people seem to take it sooooooooo seriously, and get sooooooo bent out of shape because they're "underpowered" compared to Shadowknights/Wizards/Gnolls from Blackburrow.....
sheesh....
quote:
Originally posted by AbbigailSD:
I bet I could come up with 1000 or more folks that think clerics are underpowered...
or monks... or paladins...
You'd lose that bet
So, what level is your Necro? How much of that "whining" have you actually read? How much do you honestly know?
I strongly doubt it's enough to form even a weak argument as to why we have no reason to complain, which is why instead of doing just that you mock and insult me like - how'd you put it? - "kindergarten children playing in the sandpit and arguing over whose turn it is for the plastice spade"
If you do think you have an argument, respond to my PM with it. I don't talk about this sorta thing in public anymore [ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Maradon? ]
quote:
Originally posted by Maradon?:
So, what level is your Necro? How much do you honestly know?
I found that quote funny, for obvious reasons. 
quote:
Originally posted by Maradon?:
You'd lose that betSo, what level is your Necro? How much of that "whining" have you actually read? How much do you honestly know?
I strongly doubt it's enough to form even a weak argument as to why we have no reason to complain, which is why instead of doing just that you mock and insult me like - how'd you put it? - "kindergarten children playing in the sandpit and arguing over whose turn it is for the plastice spade"
If you do think you have an argument, respond to my PM with it. I don't talk about this sorta thing in public anymore
Rant alert! Remember the breathing practices! In... out... in...... and out...
quote:
Originally posted by Demitri:
I found that quote funny, for obvious reasons.
I know more about Necros than a lot of level 60 Necros.
Try me (in PM of course)
And frankly, it's not just your whining I am basing my view on (although you seem to be by far the most vocal whiner abour Necro's being underpowered of any board I've ever read), but the views of all necros I've ever grouped with, guilded with, or just chatted with in EQ.
And the vast amjority of those, including necros at level 60, have and had no problem at all with their "level of power" when compared to druids/shamen, or frogloks...
I have seen clerics whine about their abilities, and monks, and all other classes... and yet I see people who are able to get to level 60 with their characters despite all these flaws and being soooooo underpowered...
but then again, o might necro of.... what level were you again?... you would know SOOOOOOO much more than all those people who played necros (or other classes) all the way to level 60, wouldnt you...
After all, you work for Verant and know exactly how badly necros are being stiffed compared to everyone else, don't you? You have a copy of "the Vision" which expressly states "all necros must be nerfed until there is nothing left to nerf"...
Pity the MAJORITY of the EQ community doesnt see it..
Whine on, Maradon, whine on... God knows, you seem to be better at that than playing the game...
So I signed.
And I actively look for Necromancers to join my groups when I play my Cleric, and I group all the time as my Necromancer.
They can mezz about as well as I generally need, they can heal themselves so I don't have to be constantly worried about them, and they can back-up heal pretty good.(500 hit points over 20 seconds on someone who isn't being actively beat on+the ability to heal yourself for about the same hit points in the same time+the ability to regain the mana lost in about the same time=pure ownage backup healing.)
quote:
So, what level is your Necro?
55, yours?
quote:
Originally posted by Maradon?:
I know more about Necros than a lot of level 60 Necros.Try me
(in PM of course)
You must know more than Zaar. I mean, c'mon, the guy uses his Epic! What does he know? He only runs one of the top 5 guilds in EQ after all.
On dragon, plane, and other high level raids, even not in Velious... necros are reduced to being twitchers. They are more mana batteries then a bard is. For that alone I pity them.
Then, in Velious... they can't even be a good battery as they can't regen thier HP to recharge themselves.
I signed (on the EZBoard version)
quote:
Originally posted by AbbigailSD:
I don't have a necro, never have. Nor do I claim to be all knowing in terms of class balancing in EQ.
And yet you somehow STILL know that I'm wrong! It's a mys-tuh-rey!
quote:
And frankly, it's not just your whining I am basing my view on (although you seem to be by far the most vocal whiner abour Necro's being underpowered of any board I've ever read)
I guess you've never heard of Potus or Zrazzt.
quote:
but the views of all necros I've ever grouped with, guilded with, or just chatted with in EQ.
And if you talk to any of them long enough, they'll either a) tell you to shut up so they can keep pretending everything's OK, or b) tell you that no, they don't think everything's peaches 'n cream in Necroland.
quote:
I have seen clerics whine about their abilities, and monks, and all other classes...
And yet clerics outnumber Necros at approximately 4-to-1, and Monks at almost 5-to-1. Would you like to see my Excel spreadsheet with the results of my comparitive study of the popularity of Necros versus six other classes? Had almost two months worth of data collected when Verant took away server counts.
quote:
but then again, o might necro of.... what level were you again?... you would know SOOOOOOO much more than all those people who played necros (or other classes) all the way to level 60, wouldnt you...
I know more than you, and if you have a level 60 Necro buddy who disagrees with this petition, get him personally to say so. I hear an awful lot of talk, but I don't see any actual fact
quote:
After all, you work for Verant and know exactly how badly necros are being stiffed compared to everyone else, don't you? You have a copy of "the Vision" which expressly states "all necros must be nerfed until there is nothing left to nerf"...
No, but I do play the game...
By the way, I couldn't help but notice you haven't responded to my PM yet. Whatsa matter? Can't come up with an actual argument? It should be EASY considering how WRONG I am? Right!? [ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Maradon? ]
quote:
Originally posted by Maradon?:
And yet clerics outnumber Necros at approximately 4-to-1, and Monks at almost 5-to-1. Would you like to see my Excel spreadsheet with the results of my comparitive study of the popularity of Necros versus six other classes? Had almost two months worth of data collected when Verant took away server counts.
this is teh funny
quote:
Originally posted by Cadga the Confused Monkey:
this is teh funny
What's teh funny is that Cadga insists that Necros are popular...without even looking! [ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Maradon? ]
They want the l337 experience points! Then they'll help themselves to your hoard!
Maradon's hit points thus far: 3
-5 penalty on Abbigail's next attack roll
quote:
Originally posted by Espio:
On dragon, plane, and other high level raids, even not in Velious... necros are reduced to being twitchers.
You say that like it's a BAD thing. That's all Clerics do, but you don't hear them complain. Clerics give hit points, Necromancers give mana.
Necromancers play an important role on any high level raid. North ToV would be 10 times harder if there were no Necromancers to feed the Wizards. Tormax would be 10 times harder if there were no Necromancers to feed the Wizards. Yelinak would be 10 times harder if there were no Necromancers to feed the Wizards. Sleeper's Tomb would be 10 times harder if there were no Necromancers to feed the Wizards. That's why guilds started swooping up Necromancers with the advent of 100K+ hit point mobs.
The only problem with them is their inability to life tap high end mobs. But most Necromancers who do those mobs will have a Zlandicar heart(common drop off a Dragon any guild who does high end mobs can kill) and regrowth of the grove on them. Which pretty much cancels out the hit point loss of the lich spell.
They do need a few improvements, but they really are good in both groups and raid situations already.
Sure, it sucks when a guild goes, 'Okay, you've DMF'd everyone.. that'll last for an hour. Can you log on a Cleric now?', but that only happens on 'lower end'(by today's standards ) raids like Trakanon or Severilous. In any high end raid you'll see just as many Necromancers as Clerics and Wizards. They get assigned a Wizard(in most cases, sometimes a Cleric with mobs that Bane doesn't land on but still 50K+ hit points) to feed so they can blast away with the Bane spells.
yo uDO know there is an anon command? or you a l33t hacker (since you have SO much time to make spredsheets and shit) and hacked the server to see the REAL amounts....
and i though with you playing AO you would stop bitching.. well shatterd my hoeps again.
flame plz maradon you make me laugh
quote:
Originally posted by AbbigailSD:
Anyone else agree with Maradon that necros are underpowered?
I agree with him, but maybe not for the same reasons.
Ever seen an agnostic necro? No? That's because they HAVE to follow a "dark" god. They are not like Mages or Wizards, the power they have doesn't just come from themselves. They have ties to the gods of Norath just as strong as any cleric or druid.
Necromancers are represented as the dark path to power, the ultimate fall from the side of light. For a high level necro to be reduced to a backup power supply for a cleric would be like changing Return of the Jedi so that the Emperor spends the entire lightsabre dual cowering in his chair and making little shreaking noises.
A max level necromancer is the ultimate height (depth?) of Evil that a PC can become. To have such a class unable to affect the upper end monsters is a tragic blow to the RP aspects of the class, and to the game at large.
When the Dragon fears the mortal with a sword, but laughs at the thought of someone who has sold their soul to the Dark Gods for power that defies death itself, there's something wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by Maradon?:
All we ask is balance
Then why is the petition largely complaining about a necros 'uselessness' in large raids and in groups?
quote:
Originally posted by Maradon?:
I know more about Necros than a lot of level 60 Necros.
You just think you do.
quote:
Originally posted by ChibiDragon:
For a high level necro to be reduced to a backup power supply for a cleric would be like changing Return of the Jedi so that the Emperor spends the entire lightsabre dual cowering in his chair and making little shreaking noises....RP...
When the Dragon fears the mortal with a sword, but laughs at the thought of someone who has sold their soul to the Dark Gods for power that defies death itself, there's something wrong.
The funnier parts of that post.
quote:
Maradon sed:
And yet clerics outnumber Necros at approximately 4-to-1, and Monks at almost 5-to-1.
You ever stop to considere that there are even less Wizards, Shadowknights, Rogues (even despite their new found (sort of new found) l337ness), Rangers, Enchanters, etc?
I don't do this in public anymore
Oh and please don't shy away from it! I'm DYING to get a PM from folks like Snoota and Drys!
This is your chance! You're always saying I ignore evidence, well this is your chance to rub my face in it! It's an open invitation! I should be easy to argue down since I'm wrong, right? [ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Maradon? ]
quote:
Originally posted by Demitri:
The funnier parts of that post.
Were you laughing at the way I described the Emperor, or the fact that I misspelled duel? Anyway, I knew someone would get a laugh out of it, and make fun of the comment about RP in EQ.
Still though, I'm fairly serious about this. Doesn't anyone agree with me?
WARRIORS, however, are UNBALANCED! I DEMAND YOU FIX TAUNT!
quote:
Originally posted by Maradon?:
This is your chance! You're always saying I ignore evidence, well this is your chance to rub my face in it! It's an open invitation! I should be easy to argue down since I'm wrong, right?
What's the point? You'll just ignore evidence in a PM too, and you'll have the luxury that there won't be ten other people around that know how wrong you are too. 
Unless I fail to respond, and I promise you that won't happen.
And by the by, it's been quite a while now and I haven't seen a thing. The way you guys carry on I was expecting my message box to be bursting with all the blatant evidence that I've been missing all along.
Could it be (gasp!) that there IS none? Nooo, you guys sound so confident though!
you bitch too much.
^_______________^
quote:
Originally posted by Kloie:
so...you're like....not going to argue with me about it? you're like....wrong?
No, I admittedly bitch too much about Necros. Far too much. [ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Maradon? ]
You want to know what I think? No, of course not. My views don't include 'Necros are horribly unbalanced, and should be fixed!', so they mean nothing at all to you. If I argue the point, no matter how innane your arguments are, no matter how many points you bring up about it, you'll just keep on arguing until I agree with you or walk away. With you, it's not even a matter of necros, you're just unwilling to accept the fact that you might be WRONG.
You've ignored one point this entire thread. What level is your necromancer, Maradon? Are you unwanted in a group? Can you no longer solo? Or are you just talking out your ass on this? Do you have any first-hand experience to back up these claims you make time, and time again?
Restrictions were imposed on Necros because without the restrictions, the necromancer would be too powerful. If you don't like the restrictions made, why don't you consider a way to CHANGE the restrictions, without removing them, to keep balance?
And don't give me any of this 'Necros aren't even balanced to begin with' shit. Seems like there are plenty of necros out there who don't think that their class is so horrible, so nerfed, in such bad shape... they just don't feel the need to bitch about it 24/7 like some others do. Why don't we see happy necros posting about their class? Because if you're happy about it you rarely need to.
Grow up maradon. You claim 'I'm not gonna do it in public anymore!' then you post this on the board. You want it private, you send it private, you want it public, you send it public. You've sent it public. [ 09-22-2001: Message edited by: Khyron ]
