as i am wrighting this i am listening to Rich Mullins the greatest cristian song writer ever except for the writer of the songs of psalms. which the president quoted and i do belive it is appropriat that he quoted what he did. "low we walk through the vally of the shadow of death we will fear no evil" another words even though we werent killed we will still not fear our safty, for when we fear our safty the evil ones win. for movie quotes for those of you out there who want one "never give up, never surender".
to quote myself on another post entitled "why did it have to happen?" i said.
"as eisenhower said about pearl harbor i do belive it can apply to what happened on this day the 11 day of september of the year 2001.
THIS IS A DAY THAT WILL LIVE IN INFAMY.
and to add on to that from me,
FOREVER SCARED THE FACE OF AMERICA THE WOUND THAT WAS CREATED HERE TODAY WILL LIVE ON IN THE MINDS OF ALL WHO WITNESSED IT AND WILL FOREVER LIVE IT, A TRADGIDY THAT WILL NOT GO UNPUNISHED BUT WHO WILL PAY THE ULTAMATE PRICE THE SERVANTS OF AMERICA ON THOSE FATEFULL PLANES AND IN THOSE FATEFULL BUILDINGS OR THE ONES WHO LIVE AFTER THE FACT WISHING IT NEVER HAPPENED. FOR THE ONES WHO CREATED THIS CRISES ON AMERICAN SOIL WILL PAY BUT CAN THEY EVER FILL THE DEPT OF AMERICAN LIFE THAT WAS CREATED HERE. FOR WE ARE A RESELIANT NATION WE WILL REBUILD AND GO ON NOT AS NOTHING HAPPENED BUT GO ON NONE THE LESS EVEN STRONGER THEN BEFORE. AS OUR PRAYERS ECHO UP TO THE HEAVENS GOD ALREADY IS BEGINING TO ANSWER THEM IN HIS OWN WAY IN HIS OWN TIME NOW WE WAIT AND REBUILD AND MOARN THE LOSS OF LIFE THAT WAS TAKEN HERE TODAY.
sincerly Faki Markiteer
none the loss greater then those you may have known but now never will. "
i dont claim to know everything but for even one to read this and be affected by it can mean that i didnt write this in vain.
to the pilots who flew those fatefull planes i am sure they did everything that they could do to save there plane and the lives of all those people. they should be honard as heros and will be in my book to the fire fighters and the policemen caught in the building during the colapse and died because of it we should erect a memorial in fact i think it would be suitable punishment for the people who made the terroristic bombing and planing to build the wall for us since they want us to kill them and expect to die for there act lets not give them what they want lets let them live and actualy do good in there lives even if it is to pay for something that they did bad.
dont forget that they want to die for there cause and there cause is that america is evil and should be destroyed to kill one of them is to make them a martyer to make a martyer is to only increase there efort to destroy America. lets not give them what they want lets give them a worse punishment then death. if you agree with me try to get as many people as you can that you know and care about to form a petition stating this. maybe this wont work but it is worth a try.
And yes i do know the scripture where it says an eye for an eye but do you know where it says to turn the other cheak once you learn what i have about human life you will understand that even if the person is evil they are still deserving of repentance and forgiveness. mainly forgive those who do wrong to you and you will gain more reward for it. so please if you call for blood maybe you should stop and ask yourself why you want blood and if you can think of another reason then because they killed our citizens with our planes then please also post it here.
sorry this was so long but i had alot to say before i went to bed.
quote:
Originally posted by Faki Markiteer:
since they want us to kill them and expect to die for there act lets not give them what they want lets let them live and actualy do good in there lives even if it is to pay for something that they did bad
Lack of strong, swift retaliation will only invite similar attacks on Americans. If they are allowed to live, they WILL attack again and again and again; until they are STOPPED. And keep in mind: these people want to kill YOU and YOUR FAMILY. Suppose they slit your mother's throat, will your advice still be "Oh, let's just forget about it and get on with life"?
It must be proven that we will not take aggression like this lying down. [ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Drysart ]
oh and i will be refeshing this board untill 2:30 am my time which is an about an hour and fifteen minutes so please keep posting and i will keep replying.
quote:
Originally posted by Faki Markiteer:
it may but then if they dont get what they want and never get what they want how will they react
You're confusing what they want with what price they're willing to pay to get it.
They want America destroyed. They want every American citizen dead. They want YOU dead.
They are willing to die to do it.
Not killing them is not "depriving" them of anything.
this crosses the line.
10,000 people... gone.
TEN THOUSAND FUCKING PEOPLE.
For no reason.
I'm no fan of the "death penalty." I figure most people don't deserve to die for their crimes, even ones as large-scale as the Oklahoma City Bombing. Yeah, an eye for an eye makes the world blind and all that, I agree completely.
...but what about an eye for 10,000?
I remember seeing the clip of the people screaming, running from the clouds of debris as the first tower collapsed. I remember the mumbling of the room dying down into a shocked silence. I remember my friend Crystal breaking down into sobs, once again. I remember my history teacher, looking down and covering her face in her hands.
I remember the two Afghan students sitting on the couch and snickering.
I'm not going to argue that I have a political backing, or a logical stance.
Let them rot in hell.
-Carl.
D'ya see that, Faki?
Do you think the people that caused that damage--that destruction--deserve to live?
Do you think the people that caused that damage WANT to live a normal, productive life?
No.
They want you dead.
Sweet dreams.
so if you think you can change my view of saying that they shouldnt die to that they should i am sorry but i wont change my mind
quote:
Originally posted by Faki Markiteer:
to be grusom about this i do think they should live and if i die i will die so be it. i do also say retribution does need to happen but for even one to be killed to make countless others is not right they want to be killed to further there goal to get more people behind them saying that the american government is evil. i am only affected by the picture you show me in that i am american it does not turn my stomach. i am a trained person to handle crises where no one can go being an eagle scout granted boyscouts arnt called upon to handle them because of even more trained personal can be called in a secounds notice but if an eagle scout is there then i will take him instead of waiting for an emergancy personal to arrive.so if you think you can change my view of saying that they shouldnt die to that they should i am sorry but i wont change my mind
Then, quite simply, you're an over-optimistic idiot.
That's all I have to say.
Life on this Earth is a most precious thing, and not even God agrees that people that take it from others deserve to keep it themselves. [ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Densetsu ]
quote:Not optimistic. Optimistic is GOOD. Being a Pacifist about it is not, and that's what s/he's being.
Originally posted by Suddar Williams:
Then, quite simply, you're an over-optimistic idiot.That's all I have to say.
Whatever works.
There was on particular sniper, sitting on a bridge. She knew she could kill me in two-three shots. She also knew that she could've just as easily let me run to the zone, without killing me.
She killed me anyway. I tried to leave. She killed me again, while my back was turned.
I spent three hours just walking towards her, completely unarmed, trying to talk to her about the morality of what she was doing. About how I bore no ill will towards her; about how she needed to realize that that course of action was needless and wrong.
I died nine times before I finally gave up.
Some people are beyond morality and sacrifice.
Some people can't be changed.
-Carl.
If you gave me a gun and the people that did this, I wouldn't even blink before blowing their brains out.
I've wondered what it would take for me to feel like that about someone. God help me, now I know.....
besides only 3rd graders want something worse done to some one else then that which was done to them.
i am in college and am 20 years old you may be older then me but are you wiser?
i only type with out capitals most of the time to get it out faster. plus everybody makes spelling mistakes at times.
quote:
Originally posted by Faki Markiteer:
besides only 3rd graders want something worse done to some one else then that which was done to them.i am in college and am 20 years old you may be older then me but are you wiser?
Take it from a 30 year old that is good at crawling around inside his own head to find out what's really in there: EVERYONE wants something worse done to some one else then that which was done to them, during 3rd grade you just learn to pretend you don't.
Those of us really hit by this want justice, closure, and Revenge. They can all be the same thing, and it is the right way to go. Find the people behind this, and remove them from existance. Track them down, and kill them.
If not for us, if not for the dead, then for those that will die in the next attack unless we stop them NOW.
we should find out who did this but we should work with there government to get them involved in stoping these horrible acts. it is when we work to gether as one, which was the reason why the United Nations was created in the first place, that we can stop all acts of terrorism but we must first act as one and let the country that spawned ther terrorists deal with them with the country that had the act done to them watch to make sure it is carried out in public.
now that i got that clear can we end this argument of lets kill them ourselfs to lets help our wounded and in some cases our dieing and bury our dead. lets get them but get there country to own up to punishing them in public so other nations will follow suit and we can then finaly live in peace.
quote:Right there is your problem.
Originally posted by Faki Markiteer:
i have just moved beyond the point of needing justice
'Moving beyond justice' does not make you superior in any way.
Why would Chibidragon pull the trigger? Why would I pull the trigger? Because if someone doesn't pull the trigger, then the fuckhead who is rejoicing for killing THOUSANDS of people will do it AGAIN!
I would never kill anybody. I've never had a reason to. I've found one today.
In this case, retaliation IS logical. The fact that you think it isn't proves that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Now is not the time for pacifism. Now is the time for JUSTICE! It's that little thing that you have 'moved beyond,' remember?
sorry about hurting your eyes but only on term papers will i use capitals i will not change for message boards.
for the attacked country to kill one to spawn more is counter productive. but for the country that was attacked watch as the home country that spawned the attacker will stop the making of more attackers. you all are still suffering the effects of the terrorist act and most likely will for the next few days to years so when you become level headed again i urge you not to tell every one to kill them or say that you will kill them personaly if you had the chance that will only make things worse then they already are and we dont need that. please help me help other in calming down dont make it worse. that is what the terrorists are wanting right now so dont give them what they want. PLEASE.
quote:Capitals I could deal with.
Originally posted by Faki Markiteer:
sorry about hurting your eyes but only on term papers will i use capitals i will not change for message boards.
YOU USE NO PUNCTUATION OR SENTENCE STRUCTURE!
an awsome power is one who feels no remorse for what was done, so that person can do what they want and not have a feeling that something is wrong.
now you know why i dont get on the instant message board and why i dont post here that often.
but anyways i am sorry for my typeing skills and will try to improve. you may not see it fully improve right away though just a disclaimer.
quote:How can you NOT be provoked?!
Originally posted by Faki Markiteer:
and when provoked i can pull a triger, when told i can pull a trigger even when not provoked i have little to no concious so please dont tell me what is wrong with me and start looking at what you guys want.
quote:
Originally posted by Faki Markiteer:
ok i guess i have to appologize for no sentence structure as well but you try to do this where your brain funtions faster then your fingers do then tell me that you have proper gramer and use proper english. dang i mean if i dont type it down fast i forget what i am saying so cut me some slack.now you know why i dont get on the instant message board and why i dont post here that often.
but anyways i am sorry for my typeing skills and will try to improve. you may not see it fully improve right away though just a disclaimer.
[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Densetsu ]
sorry it is late and i am tired. i am on later then i said i would be.
Good GOD, man! What is WRONG with you?!
so you should get some sleep as i should and read the comady thread that was started it is dang funny, it might help you relaxe.
Anyone else see what's wrong with that? [ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Densetsu ]
quote:
Originally posted by Densetsu:
Why would Chibidragon pull the trigger? Why would I pull the trigger? Because if someone doesn't pull the trigger, then the fuckhead who is rejoicing for killing THOUSANDS of people will do it AGAIN!
Correct. I have a friend that was on a jet Monday, it's only by luck that he wasn't flying a day later. I have a niece that's just about two. I have friends and family, and these people want to kill them.
Give me the gun. I will use it. No doubt, no hesatation. Regrets? Yes, but it would be worth it. Just give me the gun.
quote:
chibidragon i bet if i gave you a gun and told you who did this you stil wouldnt pull the triger because you wouldnt feel as if you life was indanger any more. and if you did pull the triger you would still have the hurt and anger you do now.
It's not just my life. It's the lives of my loved ones. The lives of my co-workers. The lives of innocent people that I will never see or meet. I may still feel hurt and anger, but that won't stop me from doing what needs to be done.
quote:
and again chibi you must also realize that i have progressed beyond thatsorry about hurting your eyes but only on term papers will i use capitals i will not change for message boards.
You say that you have progressed beyond a basic tennent of human nature, then show that you have not. Keep crawling around in that head of yours, you are not as far in as you think.
But there are things that really need to be corrected in your comments...
quote:
Originally posted by Faki Markiteer:
"as eisenhower said about pearl harbor i do belive it can apply to what happened on this day the 11 day of september of the year 2001.
THIS IS A DAY THAT WILL LIVE IN INFAMY.[/QB/
Errrr.. wasn't it Franklin D. Rooseveldt who said this??? I mean I'm not American so I could be wrong, but I think my history classes in High School said it was Rooseveldt, not Eisenhower that said this..
quote:
[QB]
to the pilots who flew those fatefull planes i am sure they did everything that they could do to save there plane and the lives of all those people. they should be honard as heros and will be in my book to the fire fighters and the policemen caught in the building during the colapse and died because of it we should erect a memorial in fact i think it would be suitable punishment for the people who made the terroristic bombing and planing to build the wall for us since they want us to kill them and expect to die for there act lets not give them what they want lets let them live and actualy do good in there lives even if it is to pay for something that they did bad.
Ok, obviously spelling is really hard for you too... but again some comments
I dont see anyone here, or anywhere else, stating that the pilots of the aircraft were not heroes.
Indeed, I believe there are reports that one of the airliners (the second one into the WTC) was carrying the wife of the US Solicitor General.. who called her husband before the plane hit and said "We are all locked in the back of the plane by the hijackers, INCLUDING THE PILOTS (empasis mine)"
Now, if the pilots are not in control of the planes, there's not a lot they can do. It is widely accepted by airline pilots interviewed here and from the US on the news services that the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was deliberately crashed by the pilot, rather than to fly it to ew York (or Washington) as the hijackers were demanding.. THAT takes courage.
But as for your "lets let them live and actualy do good in there lives even if it is to pay for something that they did bad", it is plainly obvious that you have no concept on just how fanatical these people are. They couldnt care less if you let them live, it only means they get ANOTHER chance to cause damage to their enemy. These people are prepared to give their lives because they believe they will be REWARDED in heaven for what they did. Smacking them on the wrist and saying "well you're naughty boys, here go clean up a highway as punishment" is not going to stop them. It's only going to reinforce in their minds that you a re a weakling and that they have every right to push you around.
quote:
dont forget that they want to die for there cause and there cause is that america is evil and should be destroyed to kill one of them is to make them a martyer to make a martyer is to only increase there efort to destroy America. lets not give them what they want lets give them a worse punishment then death.
There is no punishment worse than death for these guys. They dont even see death as a punishment. They are indoctrinated by their religeious leaders to believe they will be REWARDED in heaven for doing things like it. There is NO punishment on Earth that will make them think "Wow, even all the glory of Paradise in Heaven is not worth this.."
quote:
And yes i do know the scripture where it says an eye for an eye but do you know where it says to turn the other cheak
The Bible also says "Judge not lest ye be judged."
But remember this, these guys aren't Christians. They do not believe in the Bible or Christ. They believe in Mohammad, and it states CLEARLY in the Koran that if you sacrifice yourself for the 'jihad' you will be REWARDED in Paradise (Heaven). Noweher in the Bible does it say that.
Until you realise, you are dealing with a whole different set of beliefs and opinions, trying to handle these folks with kid gloves is just going to end up with more of the same.
America, and her allies, have been treating these guys with kid gloves for far too long. Just look at the UK and their problems with the IRA. You cannot deal rationally with people who insist on behaving irrationally.
You insist on treating these people better than you would treat a serial killer. These people are mass murderers! They are not nice people! They do not respond to "Please stop, cant we just talk things over". They only understand violence to support their message.
Sometimes you just have to fight fire with fire.
i will not make excuses why my mind has changed to that but it still holds true to the fact that we as americans should punish them to death but rather some one else for us to look upon death as the only solution is also to loose our humanity as well. now you can start to see where i am coming from but you still do not know because you are still in shock and have hate filling your heart while love fills mine. i am also trying to get emotions and a contious but when tragidy hits it is hard to get back but it is a real test to see how far i have progressed.
to see with your own eyes you see only one perspective, to see with another adults eyes you see just another perspective but to see with a young childs eyes would to see with the eyes of innocence since there heart has not yet filled with hate and anger.
learn to let go of that hate and anger and you will gain new vision and will see the truth, yes they didnt have to die, but that is the past one can not live in the past one must live in the present for if one can not live in the past they surely can not live in the future for the future has not shown its self. there are others out there that are close to where i am and i hope they dont fully go down the path i did and make the same mistakes i did. i learned i lived i am ready.
quote:Why does that sound like something from a bad movie?
Originally posted by Faki Markiteer:
*snip*
I'm not going to believe this crap about you not having emotions, and then you talk about our emotions and love, like you think you know something. You're not above us. In fact, as I see it, you're
far below us, especially if you don't think you feel emotion.
yes I did just realize the mistake I made with the last sentance. but anyways if we can get the governments to actualy work together at this we will have an eisier time dealing with terrorists. I keep thinking more about this with discusion, and thank you all for your oppinions I havent had a good descusion in so long. I like it when my view are chalenged it only helps make them stronger or more organized. thank you.
ps you dont want to see how this comes out before I actualy correct some of the errors in it. I get as many as I can as I type but then there are a few that get through.
oh and chibi or whom ever i am sorry about all that i also have friends and family near there are are supposed to be there. so your not the only one and if I lost loved ones or people i care about in a terrorist attack i would like to be there too but there are hard realities in life like taxes and death. you cant excape them so you just learn to live with them. sorry that is another reason why i am talking like i am i learned.
oh and another thing so it wont happen if you have to curse, and this goes to anyone, dont do it on my threads please i dont curse so i expect none of you to curse either only out of respect. you do know what respect is dont you.
but anyways den like i said dont post another reply on continsus (sp?) untill you are where i am.
quote:
Originally posted by Faki Markiteer:
now you can start to see where i am coming from but you still do not know because you are still in shock and have hate filling your heart while love fills mine.
Judge not lest ye be judged.
How do you know my heart is filled with hate?
First off, I am not American, I am Australian. So I am lucky in the respects that I dont have religeious fanatics out looking to kill me or my countrymen simply because of where I live. (which is what these folks WANT to do.
They see your country as "The great Satan" and that striking a blow like this as doing "the Will of Allah(God)". Now if you're able to forgive someone for "doing God's work" and killing innocent people...
Honestly, I don't think you have any idea at just how fanatical these people can bem and what their beliefs are. I suggest you go do a little research into the matter. You may be shocked to learn that these people just do not see the world in the way you do.
quote:
to see with your own eyes you see only one perspective, to see with another adults eyes you see just another perspective but to see with a young childs eyes would to see with the eyes of innocence since there heart has not yet filled with hate and anger.
See this is where you are wrong. These people are taught from a very young age that what they are doing is "the Will of Allah(God)" and that it is perfectly roght for them to kill innocents. They are taught in schools from age 5 upward that America is EVIL. While you are being taught your ABC's and math, they are being taught to strip and reload assault rifles. And this is a proven FACT! There are numerous sources who have studied this and have reported it, both on TV news, and to governments around the world.
You really need to go research things.
quote:
learn to let go of that hate and anger and you will gain new vision and will see the truth, yes they didnt have to die, but that is the past one can not live in the past one must live in the present for if one can not live in the past they surely can not live in the future for the future has not shown its self. there are others out there that are close to where i am and i hope they dont fully go down the path i did and make the same mistakes i did. i learned i lived i am ready.
Seriously, I think the only thing you are ready for is the funny farm... you're perception of reality is so far removed from what is actually going on in the world today, that it frightens me.
It is people with beliefs such as yours that find it perfectly acceptable for innocents to be killed and for their murderers to get away with a smack on the wrist.
These people WILL NOT stop with the punishments you are suggesting. They are brain-washed to the extent that they believe they will be REWARDED for killing innocents!! They believe that every person they kill will be their servant in Paradise, because they have "done God's work". Rather they will CONTINUE to do things like this, simply because they have no fear or concern for their own lives.
If someone is that willing to die for their cause, sending them out to pick up litter on a highway (or some other community based work which you suggested) is not going to make them think twice.
Go do some serious research into the subject, have a good long think at what you find out, then look back here at what you've said.
What you say is great in theory, but it just will not work in the real world of today.
[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: AbbigailSD ]
--
No dancing sig in memory of the innocents who lost their lives.
quote:
Originally posted by Faki Markiteer:
like i said later the government that spawned them should do the punishment while the world watches to make sure the government does what there supposed to do like they do for serial killers with onlookers of the families of the victiums and to them also being killed in battle and at the hands of an enamy is a good thing, my point there is that the one that spawned them and taught them these doctrins will do the punishing so they are to not do it again and they will think twice if there own government punishes them.
That's the thing. The governments and religeious leaders that 'spawned' these terrorists have NO INTENTION of punishing these people. They WANT them to do it. They actually ENCOURAGE it.
So what should the rest of us do. Shake our hands and say "Oh well it's really terrible that INNOCENT people are being killed, but I guess we cant do anything because their own governments WANT to kill us". If you think that's ok, just go dig yourself a hole and bury yourself, cos it'll save them time later on in chasing you down...
Meanwhile, the rest of the world who views this as just plain WRONG, will do what we can to stop it.
--
No Dancing sig in memory of the innocents who lost their lives.
I too wish them to be eliminated. Torture them slowly, or a quick easy death makes no difference to me. Cut them from humanity as a surgeon would cut a cancerous blob from the body. We have no need for them in the world. Let them die and be forgotten.
Surely Faki you can understand that to keep such people in the world would only cause more problems. If they were caught and merely jailed, they would need more than the average security. Plus, the animosity that would surround them would only intensify by the fact they were left to live. Undoubtably there would be attempts on their lives while in jail, and the result would be the same, only then you run the risk of having others, i.e. the guards, be hurt while trying to do their job to protect as well as to keep them inside.
Anyway, if you don't like to look at it as revenge, look at it as surgical removal for the betterment of the rest of the body.
quote:
Originally posted by Leopold, the Voice of Reason:
In fourth period today, my history class packed into the student activity center, along with the 100+ students and teachers who were already there, to watch the news.I remember seeing the clip of the people screaming, running from the clouds of debris as the first tower collapsed. I remember the mumbling of the room dying down into a shocked silence. I remember my friend Crystal breaking down into sobs, once again. I remember my history teacher, looking down and covering her face in her hands.
I remember the two Afghan students sitting on the couch and snickering.
I'm not going to argue that I have a political backing, or a logical stance.
Let them rot in hell.
-Carl.
*finishes reading*
Okay that just pisses me off to no end.. Deport those sons of bitches! These that would snicker at something so horrible.. have NO business being in our school systems.. being paid for by US citizens through taxation.
*growl*
*looks at Abbi and hugs her tight, sighing*
But...the damage is still done. So many people lost their lives yesterday.
I have a friend whos uncle works at the Pentagon, and he has yet to hear from him.
Oh and another thing, if I was in the room and saw some mother fuckers(excuse the language) snickering about this. I would seriously beat the living shit out of them.
