Basically I have absolutely no DMing experience, and I was finnaly to the point of being a knoledgable player. But I want to learn, and have always wanted to make my own worlds come to life. With my own characters and such. Which is where WildKat is from and just about every drawing I make. They are all part of the vast world in my head I wanna open up. So know up front, Im rather ignorant of the ways of DMing and am going to have to learn.

With that said. I have the channel, and the command scripts using GameServ setup and ready for use. I have recently downloaded the TSR Demo 3ed Adventure from the site (So if you've ever played this adventure, please dont apply as I need the learning experience) for learning and experimental purposes. What I need are 5 volunteers who are willing to put up with me learning, and just generally having a good time.

The plan is if your interested just PM me, and sometime tomorow afternoon we can setup a time to meet in the room and roll dummy characters, I say dummy cause they aren't important, they are only for learning purposes. The server is prepared I can be in a Private messages one on one to roll up each character. And then later that evening when a time is set we will meet again to start the game.

This channel is gaming exclusive, I wont have "idle chat" in otherwords, as I need to learn, and would rather keep it in a gaming environment. This doesn't mean you can't talk OOC or anything, just no discussions or debate subjects or anything. I mean what game is fun without a littel sideline horsing around, that is perfectly acceptable.

There are no restrictions on classes or races, other than there are no evil characters. Sorry this is a hero adventure, no bad guys. Plus I need to keep it on one level while I get used to things.

Anyway if you are interested, just PM me, and I'll sort through the volunteers and we can talk more on it tomorow, when I decide and then setup a time that after noon to roll up dummies.

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D&D 3rd edition is not newbie friendly

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Disagreed.

3rd Ed is the most newbie-friendly system yet. The rules are easy, simple to understand.

Compare them to the mathematical knots and other trivial, confusing details of 2nd Ed.

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Originally posted by Mr. Parcelan:
Disagreed.

3rd Ed is the most newbie-friendly system yet. The rules are easy, simple to understand.

Compare them to the mathematical knots and other trivial, confusing details of 2nd Ed.

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Well put, ThAC0 was pure evil!

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Originally posted by Mattimeo:
Hmm, I have to disagree with you here. I have first hand experiance with a friends 13 year old cousin, He got the 3rd edition book on hos own, and couldn;t understand how to play very much at all, but we gave him a copy of AD&D 2nd and he picked it up right away. the material is not presented in a way that leads to the ability of an individual to learn on his own.

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It took me a week to learn 2e. To this day I still have trouble with proficiencies and THAC0.

It took me a day to have a semi-working knowledge of 3e.

But, so long as we're throwing examples around, three of my friends, whom all gave up D&D because of the confusing rules, took it up once again because of the 3rd Ed. rules.

Not only is it newbie-friendly, but oldbie-friendly too. It makes gameplay fast, easy, and open to the imagination. Above all, flexible.

2nd Ed was totally strict in its rules. By the way, I've heard the "If you don't like the rules, then change them" line. In the end, it seemed there were many rules in need of changing.

Oh look, 3rd Ed. took care of that.

But, in the end, it's Fae's choice. And we probably shouldn't bog down her thread with arguing about 2nd Ed vs. 3rd Ed.

Hope you find some more pals, Fae!

The 3e was easier to pick up, the only thing I have a bit of trouble with is the feats and saving throws.

[typos]

[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: Mattimeo ]

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Originally posted by Mattimeo:
My Biggest problem with 3rd edition was the fact that any newbie i meet rattles me with questions because the can't understand how alot of things work.not once in my years of GMing did i EVER run into that kind of questioning with 2nd. my personal feelings are, anyone with a reasonable intelligence should be able to pick up a handbook, read it, and be able to play right after. I never see that with 3rd.

[typos]

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What questions?

me and my gameing group never had any questions.....

3rd Ed, like all systems, takes time to digest, and usually some people need help. You can't just toss someone a book, a character sheet and a few dice and expect him to be the best player ever.

I prefer 2ed myself, not because I think it's easier. Cause it's not in my opinion. It was much more complicated for me than 3ed was.

But adversly I think 3ed is TOO simplistic sometimes, and just a little too open. NOw granted this makes for great GM Freedom, but you had that with 2ed if you had a good GM who just flat out said I am god, my rules. I think 3ed makes the mistake of being too cookie cutter in it's character make up and abilities. But again this is all just my opinion.

For some GMs and gamers it was a god send, for others a dissapointment. In either case it's all personal preference.

::blinks::

I wontbe responding to the PMs tonight I will choose in the morning. I was hoping only 5 people PMed so I would have to pick and choose

::grins::

ATTACKS OF OPPURTUNITY

Argh. Every DM I've met ignores them completely. They're just such a pain in the ass--they slow combat down to a crawl. It's not even fun. It's just "You hit. *checks for attack of oppurtunity* *rolls again* *wastes time* He hits you back."

2e is the better book, it explains the basics better to total beginers

As to the game itself: I would be interested, but I don't know if I will be free tomorrow or not (regular game may or may not be canceled), so I have to pass.

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Originally posted by Suddar Williams:
My only problem with 3E:

ATTACKS OF OPPURTUNITY

Argh. Every DM I've met ignores them completely. They're just such a pain in the ass--they slow combat down to a crawl. It's not even fun. It's just "You hit. *checks for attack of oppurtunity* *rolls again* *wastes time* He hits you back."

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You obviously have an inferior DM. The game I play in with Deth GMing sometimes has attacks of opportunity and he announces them, we take them, roll, done. It doesn't waste any time at all, and sometimes it helps us, like if it's a ninja we don't want getting the chance to run away and bring back reinforcements, etc.

I've played both 2e and 3e and I have to say 3e is much more organized they I've ever seen 2e be. The people you are complaining about must be idiots, Matt. It's all very straight-forward, there's a nice index to look up things you don't understand, and the book goes in the order you would make a character in.

3e is much more GM friendly. Less rules, mean less things Rules Lawyers can nitpick at the GM about. Sure, you can say "Well a 2e GM could just say no." Obviously, you have never had experience with a Rules Lawyer. "No" does not stop them. They just look for ways around it. 3e solves that problem by not giving them the material they need to whine about something they don't like. Combat also goes much swifter and flows better in 3e.

I prefer it very much to 2e and I don't think I'll ever go back, except in any 2e games I'm currently in, like the AD&D boards.

In 3e there's a simple rule. Take the number you have from bonuses, etc. Roll a d20. Add the two numbers. is it higher than or equal to your goal number? Yes? Great you succeed. Doesn't matter if it's your skill check, your ability check, your savings throw, or your attack. It's just that simple. No more remembering Algebraic Equations. Rolling and Addition. Much simpler.

Classes are finally more balanced. In 2e Druids were a wimpy cleric class that had to fight to earn every teen level they got, and could get uprooted from that level and bumped back down if some challenger came along and defeated them. Wizard familiars were more of a liability than a benefit. Heaven forbid you play a paladin; Lawful Good's ethos was written in stone, and heaven help you if your mount ever got injured or killed in the line of duty; you lose a class benefit forever. We the GM's who ran 2e often bent or rewrote huge sections of the rules.

Now we don't have to. 3e incorporates a lot of the rules we rewrote. Familiars are cooler, and while their loss is traumatic, it's nowhere near as likely to happen nor is it as crippling if it DOES happen (plus you can always get your pet resurrected or have raise dead cast on it to undo the damage done). Paladin Mounts are valid creatures that actually go up in their level worth. Same as familiars. Druids are now a cleric variant who trades in certain things for useful powers rather than vague bonuses in the future.

As for "Why do the Gods suck?" it's because 3e's base setting is Greyhawk. Most players played in Forgotten Realms. Greyhawk's gods aren't nearly as well known as Faerun's. Personally I like Clerics more in 3e. In 2e, clerics AND wizards had to memorize their next day's spells way in advance, meaning they had to guess what spells were going to be needed. So wizards generally stocked up on their offensive attack spells, and clerics were healing whores waiting for a customer. Wizards still tend to favor blasting spells, but they have a larger repetoir to pick from. If you want to fire off arcane spells on the fly, play a Sorcerer, who have their own benefits. And Clerics? Well...Every deity has three domains. You cleric picks two. You get a special permanent ability from each, plus a list of spells outside the cleric norm they can cast for favoring those domains. PLUS Clerics can covert the energies of prepared memorized spell into a healing spell. Clerics can *gasp* actually use spells other than the healing series of spells.

And what's confusing about Feats? Feats were designed to be the method of levelling the playing field. What's the benefit of fighters over any other class? They get the most personally-chosen feats out of any class. ANY CLASS. You want a fighter who stacks up against a wizard and can go toe to toe? Fine. Pick the feats for it. You want to favor fast, nimble attacks over large heavy-handed "hit everything in range" attacks? fine. Style choice you make with your feats.

Another frequent gripe I hear is the "loss" of kits. Tied to that is the bitching I hear about "well what if my character was raised to..." type complaints. Look...say you want to play an Elven Bladesinger. That's fine. That's cool. It's a Prestige Class now. Why? because you have to learn to crawl before you can learn to walk, and you have to walk before you run. Bladesingers have some serious benefits. They're the elite force of the Faerunian elves. Why the HELL should a first level character be the equivalent of Special Forces? Answer is they shouldn't. Learn the fundamentals of the Fighter class. Learn to hone your magic as a wizard or sorcerer. You can call yourself a "cadet Bladesinger" if you want. Doesn't matter. Once you've earned the right, via knowledge, you can call yourself a Bladesinger and assume the priveleges thereof. Or, likewise an Assassin. You may be a killer-for-hire, sure. But there are specific benefits you only get with specialized training. That's what a Prestige Class is for. Earn your cool stuff. Don't min/max your character to start.

And 3e is a GM's dream. Challenge Ratings help take excessive guesswork out of what to throw at players at what level. A sliding rule experience point table lets you reward ingenuitive players who manage to take on something that might be too tough for them, while discouraging players from annihilating hordes of low level creatures for easy amounts of XP in large quantities. The reinforced size level chart lets you terrorize players with unusual creatures. A Colossal size class skeleton is still a challenge for character groups in their teens, whereas in 2e Giant Skeletons were as good as it got, and even then their threat had worn out after a while.

Templates are another good idea. Easy rules for making assorted variants of existing characters. Celestial Wolves, Infernal Scorpions, Half-dragon Ogres; it's all possible. Lycanthropy is now something any living creature can theoretically contract. Vampirism is likewise easy to apply.

And organizing/running things is easier. Combats run smooth, out of combat roleplaying is easier, and the wide variety of race/class variants, in my opinion, encourages roleplay.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think 2e was evil, but I think 3e is a fresh take on an old, reliable friend. 2e wasn't horrible, but 3e is better. It's simpler, more convenient. Okay it takes learning a few quick rules, and unlearning a lot of things that were complicated, but really I think it's great.

And it's the freshness, the promise, and the so far rather impressive new look to things that has me hooked. If it was just another new system I'd be wary, but this is D&D folks. It's what we all know and love, and it's a new class of D&D, rather than refitting and overhauling all the old 2e nonsense. The old classic AD&D still has its charm, but 3e has more bang for the buck, and more to play for.

For those interested I'd still like to contact those chosen tomorow for a chance to roll up a character though. With this and pushing the game back to next saturday, I'll be able to work the new characters into the plot line better, and possibly have a better open ending in case anyone wants to keep going depending on how my first DMing excusion goes.

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Originally posted by Lyinar:
I can't participate myself, Fae, because I work on Saturdays, but I'll be more than happy to help you out with anything you have questions on

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I knew you were really busy these days. So thats why I didn't ask. I'm only asking for 5 people for a reason though. You know the room limit. Some of those slots are reserved for a reason.

Just to Clarify the main gaming group I have planned is 5 people. But there are some spots reserved for pop in characters for a few people that are really busy lately, but that I'd like to have around on occasion.

The only part that would bug me about you filling a spare slot Ly... I dunno if I could ever say no to a Lyinar character.

Being in charge of friends has always bugged me.. I don't handle it well.

Art holds one of the spare slots and Im not sure how Im gonna do with him either.

You guys make me nervous.

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Originally posted by Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael:
Ditto here, Fae. I'm usually around. Just look me up.

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Having you game under me just frightens me...

I wouldn't have to be a spare, although I'm more than happy to do that if you wanted me to.

I just meant if you had questions about 3e or running things in IRC or whatnot. I've watched Deth and picked up some really good hints on how to go about things

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Originally posted by Lyinar:
*laughs*

I wouldn't have to be a spare, although I'm more than happy to do that if you wanted me to.

I just meant if you had questions about 3e or running things in IRC or whatnot. I've watched Deth and picked up some really good hints on how to go about things

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By spare I meant if it turns into a real group, you wouldn't have a commitment to playing. Just if and when you wanted to.

What like I'm not gonna ask you questions regardless?

Yah, right!

Damnit, I just got up for a cigarette, (yeah I smoke so bite me I'm aloud at least ONE bad habit. ) And I shoulda just gone into chat...

Well I wanted to let you know that I'm open to your questions :P

So you don't think you're bugging me or annoying if you do have them. I like to help when I can

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Originally posted by Mattimeo:
Questions go as far as walking them through how to make a character, the magic system, why the gods SUCK, dice rolls, what dice are... plain stupid stuff.

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hmm.. how to make a character.. 3rd edition came with char generator software for the n00bs

The magic system.. valid questions.. Although me being a n00b myself to this type of gaming in general.. I got my questions answered but then they told me I need to read up on my class.

Why the Gods SUCK? Okay you serious? They asked you this? Thats a lame question to be askin the DM.

Dice Rolls.. My fiance explained dice rolls and the abbreviations for it to me beforehand. ie. 2d4 rolling two dice that were 4-sided. Easy enough no? And again, they should note the information on their character sheet or somewhere on how many dice should be rolled for their weapons and stuff.. most everything else is a d20 plus your skills or whatever. Fairly easy imo.

What dice are.. That is not the fault of 3rd edition that they are askin that. If they are a true newbie, then they are gonna ask that regardless. *laugh*

The only major difference that takes getting used to is that 3e is more of a tactical game in terms of combat. With range, reach, attacks of opportunity, line of sight... using a grid map and miniatures are almost necessary. Not that that's a bad thing, mini's help to visualize and flesh out a game.

It's really good stuff if ye ask me.
-KD