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Author
Topic: Paladin Questions
Star Collective
Pancake
posted 12-03-2001 04:54:28 PM
After Paladins get their first set of spells, does spell acquisition progress the same as clerics?
The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. - Ursula K. LeGuin ~ The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas
Maelarr
Pancake
posted 12-03-2001 04:55:17 PM
dont think so, ask one of our resident bucketheads

All Empires Fall, You just have to know where to push- Me
Cleric Rogue Sigpic
Sora
Domo Arigato
posted 12-03-2001 05:02:42 PM
Not sure, get spells at 9, 15, 22, 30... pretty sure thats not the same as a cleric. But it is the same as SKs and rangers.
Star Collective
Pancake
posted 12-03-2001 05:05:57 PM
Odd, the intervals between levels seem to increase by one each time.
The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. - Ursula K. LeGuin ~ The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas
Gaeadil Fyrecynder
Pancake
posted 12-03-2001 05:07:27 PM
Well.. some spells like valor, for instance, a cleric gets that at 30, while we get that around 49. We don't even get some of them nifty spells a cleric could snag
Erf.. hope I explained that well enough.. being tired and all.
Azizza
VANDERSHANKED
posted 12-03-2001 05:07:30 PM
quote:
We were all impressed when Star Collective wrote:
Odd, the intervals between levels seem to increase by one each time.

Exactly. Same with all Hybrid classes. Keeps them from catching up to much with thier parent Spell casting class.

"Pacifism is a privilege of the protected"
Vorago
A completely different kind of Buckethead
posted 12-03-2001 05:07:41 PM
9, 15, 22, 30, 39, 49

I know SKs get a couple weird ones thrown in, but that is when the ranks of spells happen for the hybrids. Level 4 cleric spells come at 15, Level 9 come at 22 etc. etc.

Sora
Domo Arigato
posted 12-03-2001 05:07:45 PM

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Sora ]

Mightion Defensor
posted 12-03-2001 05:11:42 PM
Notice to all hybrids;

Your first wave of spells will NOT suddenly make you an unstoppable force.

Neither will your second.

Or your third.

Fourth doesn't either, now that I think about it.

Fifth? Nah, not yet...

Sixth? Dunno myself, but at least I can save someone a CR...

Star Collective
Pancake
posted 12-03-2001 05:13:05 PM
Gahhh, hybrids have it bad
The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. - Ursula K. LeGuin ~ The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas
Vorago
A completely different kind of Buckethead
posted 12-03-2001 05:13:27 PM
I found that 22 was 'the' level for my SK, that was when I reliably began to solo yellows. New spells are always nice

But yeah, the hybrid spells aren't "Everything is sooo dead" they are more like "Cool, this will help"

Mortious
Gluttonous Overlard
posted 12-03-2001 05:14:19 PM
Yep, but we're not spell-casters. Of course we're not going to be powerful in that respect.

But add our melee in, and we're great. Seriously. Stop laughing.

Vorago
A completely different kind of Buckethead
posted 12-03-2001 05:14:56 PM
quote:
Star Collective impressed everyone with:
Gahhh, hybrids have it bad

Hybrids have it good IMHO, my SK has alwas tanked well, I can still solo yellows, I can outtaunt a warrior my level and I can seriously dish out the damage

No complaints here

(My SK is 35 at the moment, so all views expressed are true as of 35 )

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Vorago ]

Sora
Domo Arigato
posted 12-03-2001 05:15:30 PM
Hybrid spells arent the best, but they do help, and are better then nothing.
Vorago
A completely different kind of Buckethead
posted 12-03-2001 05:17:42 PM
True, but they are useful.

I get a fear, a snare, a helper pet, FEIGN DEATH (WOO!) and 'The Taunt', disease cloud That's all I pretty much need, anything else is a bonus.

It's all about making the best with what you have. Just because you are a hybrid doesn't mean you suck at melee'ing or anything, and you have spells to assist

Sora
Domo Arigato
posted 12-03-2001 05:20:50 PM
Ohhh... FD spell, my SK was happy when she got that. Takes a bit more practice to do then a monk though. =\
I always had a problem with fear though... it never worked when I needed it to. <like anything does.>
Mortious
Gluttonous Overlard
posted 12-03-2001 05:21:11 PM
quote:
Check out the big brain on Vorago!
*snip* spells *snip*

Aye, I know. Although I've met more than a few Shadow Knights who don't even use their spells, usually around 15-29. I don't know why.. they just don't. Idiots.

Star Collective
Pancake
posted 12-03-2001 05:22:34 PM
The lengthening interval between spells doesn't seem exactly fair. The farther you get, the farther healing, damage, and DoTs all fall behind. I guess I'm gonna wait on starting that pally I was thinking about till I can twink him pretty well with my mage.
The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist: a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain. - Ursula K. LeGuin ~ The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas
Azizza
VANDERSHANKED
posted 12-03-2001 05:23:35 PM
Actually Hybrids have it pretty good.

Ok my paladin is level 27. Not great. However I have earned a name for myself as a Damn good tank. I have been choosen over warriors on more than one occasion. Unlike some classes you can't just sit there and mash keys however. there is a speacial finess to it. For instance with my paladin. It is VERY easy to heal myself while in combat because with hybrids casting spells does not reset your attack timer. So after you swing you do the following.
Hit Tab.
Hit heal spell shortcut (number 6 in my case)
Hit tab once more.

What you get is a heal on yourself and no interuption in combat. What you get at the end of the fight is a Paladin with 85% health and a very dead Yellow con Mob. I( tested this with a friends level 36 pally as well. It is just as effective with the better healing spell.
And the real kicker is that I have an MS strategic commander. Just set it up for a macro on one button. Instant heals for the course of the battle.
Same applies to rangers.
SKs don't need it since they can just kill monster.
Ahh but this only cover soloing right? wrong.
Same deal applies to healing the group. Just use the F1 - F6 keys and then F8 to retarget the mob. I can heal people and fight without a single interuption in battle. Plus I can taunt like no ones business. And this is befoer the nice stuns we get in Luclin.

No we are not warriors. And we are not casters. We are something different. Not better, not worse. Just different.

"Pacifism is a privilege of the protected"
Vorago
A completely different kind of Buckethead
posted 12-03-2001 05:38:53 PM
quote:
We were all impressed when Star Collective wrote:
The lengthening interval between spells doesn't seem exactly fair. The farther you get, the farther healing, damage, and DoTs all fall behind. I guess I'm gonna wait on starting that pally I was thinking about till I can twink him pretty well with my mage.

Heh, I love being able to out-taunt warriors. It's rather funny to see the tank of the group coming out of every fight at full More than a few times I've down right refused to let the warrior take damage so they would make me the main tank

They had him buffed out the arse, and I had nothing but a STR buff. Within 10 min that was reversed, heh

I enjoy my SK, my spells rock, my melee'ing rocks and god dammit, my pet rocks

(So few Sks I see use their pet, heh)

Azizza
VANDERSHANKED
posted 12-03-2001 05:50:22 PM
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Vorago was all like:

(So few Sks I see use their pet, heh)

I never understood this.
To me it is like a Paladin not using his heals.
Turn taunt off and you have a Long term DOT that can be just plain NASTY.

"Pacifism is a privilege of the protected"
Vorago
A completely different kind of Buckethead
posted 12-03-2001 05:54:31 PM
I was so disappointed when they made pets have to follow the level restrictions on weapons... I had 3 10-slot backpacks full of Gnoll Hide Lariets and a backpack and a half of daggers of dropping that I kept ready for my pets (SPent like 3 levels in SK, heh)

Which all became useless

"All riiight! When I hit 49 my pet will rock!"

Mortious
Gluttonous Overlard
posted 12-03-2001 05:55:04 PM
I have 160 bone chips on me at all times.

Needless to say, I use my pet.

Koska Kintaro
Not Banned Yet
posted 12-03-2001 05:56:47 PM
Hybrids rule. They have a hand over pure melee in that they're far more dynamic. This leads to more flexable groups and greater solo ability, and flat out more fun IMO.

However in my experience, Warriors are the only tanks in the game. Granted though that my experience doesn't extend to modern-day SK's and paladins.

[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Koska Kintaro ]

Kennatsu
hu�mor 1. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer skilled at crafting humor.
posted 12-03-2001 05:58:54 PM
Paladins have it good. Being a Cleric means I can last longer in combat because I can heal myself better than a Paladin can heal himself, right?

Wrong. Clerics are offset by the fact that they are very poor at melee, and they get worse at higher levels. I've also found myself very vulnerable to being stunned (especially being chainstunned), making my spells virtually useless. Paladins on the other hand don't really have to rely on their spells to survive (and they wield big swords too!).

/dev/null
Pancake
posted 12-03-2001 06:01:56 PM
Hybrids have their place...

Give a SK C2 and he'll hold taunt off of anyone. Paladins can do something similar with their stuns, however their higher AC tends to make them last longer.

Rangers.... um.... well, SoW is useful for getting your corpse back....

Beep. Beep. Beep... Ohh... I think my porridge is done.
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Reyolen
Wanders too much for a custom title
posted 12-03-2001 06:33:11 PM
Haha, but I find that a ranger could taunt very well, better then warriors and probably better then many sks and pallys. See, using those fast weapons, plus kick, plus snare, plus flame lick (or another dot), plus dds, plus taunt tend to make the monster pretty mad. The problem is we don't know what to do with all that attention and we tend to die. A Ranger in the 20s and 30s can be very effective if you just know how to control the hate. If i wanted I don't doubt I could get that monster off of the caster, as long as he doesn't run around like a chicken with his head cut off. Rangers can deal out more damage then warriors, paladins, maybe sks, and some monks (in the 20s and 40s, i have no idea about past that) People say we are of little use but I believe in outdoor zones I pull better then monks, because if they fail their fd, well, tough luck. With SOW if I had to I could just zone the bad pull without bringing it to the group. ARCHERY IS A RANGERS FRIEND. I use it alot during soloing, and I take down blues (and i could take evens and yellows, as long as snare sticks) without even touching it in melee.
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