Likewise, if I have a game like Baldur's Gate 2, and Lyinar has it, and we both legally paid for it, and my copy is destroyed (let's argue for a moment that it's destroyed out of no fault of my own, to avoid any snide comments about how tidy I keep my household, etc), and Lyinar burns me a copy of the game to play...
She is, technically, guilty of pirating the game. The question is if I am in violation for owning a copy of the game. Technically, yes I am, but not because I'm playing a burned copy of the game. I paid the company their money. I have the right to play the game. I don't see too many cases of companies suing over that sort of situation, because they can't easily prove that you've done it unless you further harm their business by spreading copies of the cracked software around.
In fact the worst part about it, and the one I'd think carries heftier penalties than whatever piddly fine you'd get for not buying another copy of the 50 dollar game you already paid for once, is if the person who pirated your copy got busted. If they got busted and named names, then you could get into trouble for possession of stolen goods, or something similar, which stings.
The fact, however, is that if you're burning a copy for your personal use as a backup or whatever, and no one finds out, then yes you broke the rules, but no gestapo-style computer cops are going to bust down your door. If you burn a copy of a music CD because you don't want to keep the original in the car, chances are no one is going to sue you silly. Yeah you might be in technical violation, but if you aren't an ass about it, then you're a self-contained problem rather than a contagious problem, and people are more likely to ignore you.
Tell me, though, Sage. How many computers do you have in your home? Have you ever changed OS's on them? Did you buy separate copies of the OS you were installing for every computer? Just curious.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
Here's a counter-question before I answer: if you have more computers than you can afford to maintain legally, what right do you have to break the law to maintain them?
Because of the oversees move, I pared down to one computer. At one time, I had four networked--all with their own, legal copies of the OS, and any programs I ran on them.
Jesus. It's not like you can claim anything other than poor planning if you build more computers than you can legally support with software. 
What's up with the notion that, simply for one's own convenience, stealing is okay? I want more than I have, therefore I should steal?
Seems like the same motivation as every other thief in the world.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
"This is an honest debate, no flames permitted, etc."
I don't think you did.
quote:
Everyone wondered WTF when Lyinar Ka`Bael wrote:
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, what the hell has gotten into you lately, Sage? You've been nasty in quite a few threads lately, and not a weak nasty either. It's like you can't make your point without attacking anymore. I think you should step back and take a look at how you've been toward the board lately, and figure out just why you've been that way.
Perhaps you should shut the fuck up, or actually make a point.
Your post, above, is completely devoid of content beyond the very type of personal attack you pretend to be arguing against. Shall we compare how many posts I've made lately, and compute the ratio of contentless flames to normal or spirited discussions?
Don't even start.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Nicole was naked while typing this:
Hey, guys, remember this?"This is an honest debate, no flames permitted, etc."
I don't think you did.
It was an "honest debate" until first Kegwen, and then the dubious duo of 'Deth/Lyinar decided to poke their noses in.
Flame != anything you'd rather not hear.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Bloodsage wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
It was an "honest debate" until first Kegwen, and then the dubious duo of 'Deth/Lyinar decided to poke their noses in.Flame != anything you'd rather not hear.
Your reading of other people's posts = only what you want to read.
quote:
Bloodsage's fortune cookie read:
It was an "honest debate" until first Kegwen, and then the dubious duo of 'Deth/Lyinar decided to poke their noses in.Flame != anything you'd rather not hear.
Nope.
They expressed their opinions, you expressed your opinions, it slowly grew more personal, until whammo, I wish I was a mod.
No side is clean in this, unfortunately. And really.. I don't care. "He started it!!" is a rather juvenile response; dosen't matter who started it s'long as it ends.
Easy Sage. I wasn't disagreeing with you. Calm down, big dog.
My post could be reined into three parts, separate.
1. If something isn't explicitly outlined in a contract, and you do it, is it illegal.
2. My stance on the lesser crime (which, if you read through, you'd see that I at no time injected my personal opinion as to whether it should be illegal or not; I merely pointed out that I thought that the "trafficking/possession of stolen property" would end up with a worse punishment and be more likely to draw fire than someone who burns copies of stuff for their own personal use and doesn't draw attention to themselves. The point THERE being that the companies don't and can't hunt for people who don't make undue asses of themselves, whereas people who do make asses of themselves get nailed and nailed hard.
3. I was just curious if the point you were arguing was the legality of it for the sake of legality, but you personally have danced in the hazy areas of personal use vs. public distribution, or if you purchase multiple copies of everything in case you need them.
At no point, Sage, was *I* attacking you. Other people might have, but don't reflexively attack anyone and everyone who comes at you. Your reputation for flaming is flaming when it's righteous. If you reflexively flame everyone with a differing opinion than you, then you're a rabid fucktard who obviously hasn't had his nap today.
You should know that I very seldomly have ever gotten sneaky or subtle or tried to pull any underhanded argumentative crap with you because it never works. I'm no good at that sort of debating trait. Don't insult my intelligence by acting as if I'm not smart enough to realize that by now.
sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me
quote:
Bloodsage thought this was the Ricky Martin Fan Club Forum and wrote:
It was an "honest debate" until first Kegwen, and then the dubious duo of 'Deth/Lyinar decided to poke their noses in.Flame != anything you'd rather not hear.
You have been abrasive and accusing from your first post in this thread, doing exactly what Gikk asked everyone not to do. Then you attack people who make perfectly logical points, and attack me when I simply point out that you've been harsher lately than you have been in a long time.
When I say something besides "You've been really nasty lately" and start throwing around asshat or moron or idiot like you are sometimes wont to do, then you can start complaining about personal attacks.
Out of deference to Gikk, my part in this particular debate ends here.
Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin
quote:
Nicole wrote this then went back to looking for porn:
Nope.They expressed their opinions, you expressed your opinions, it slowly grew more personal, until whammo, I wish I was a mod.
No side is clean in this, unfortunately. And really.. I don't care. "He started it!!" is a rather juvenile response; dosen't matter who started it s'long as it ends.
Well, thanks for your help in determining what the "mature" thing to do is.
I never have thought it was a "good thing" to put up with personal attacks. My choice, and I don't really care what you think on the subject.
Nor does calling theft "stealing," or those who steal "thieves" qualify as flaming or personal attacks. The question was, "Is it okay to steal download an illegal version of a program I can't find because my room is messy."
I find that rather ludicrous. And I answered the question without attacking anyone, though, apparently, anything with which certain people disagree constitutes a flame.
Nor should I (or will I) be required to sit idly by while the Kegwens and Lyinars of the world snipe with their, "You always do that--I hate it--you suck," bullshit. If someone wants to debate, they're welcome, but there'd damn well better be some content beyond the venom.
Perhaps people need more lessons on separating their opinions from their self-image, so every disagreement isn't taken as a flame. Perhaps others should practice avoiding second person usage, if they are unable to express themselves without seeming to attack other people rather than ideas.
'Deth, to give him credit, attempted a middle path, though the logical fallacy of fishing to find a personal fault to throw back in my face was rather annoying.
Welcome to the jungle. If you can't defend your opinions, then don't display them in public, and reset your homepage to here lest you be prematurely exposed to reality.
{edit: grammar} [ 05-04-2003: Message edited by: Bloodsage ]
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
quote:
Verily, Lyinar Ka`Bael doth proclaim:
You have been abrasive and accusing from your first post in this thread, doing exactly what Gikk asked everyone not to do. Then you attack people who make perfectly logical points, and attack me when I simply point out that you've been harsher lately than you have been in a long time.When I say something besides "You've been really nasty lately" and start throwing around asshat or moron or idiot like you are sometimes wont to do, then you can start complaining about personal attacks.
Out of deference to Gikk, my part in this particular debate ends here.
Please. You can't very well jump into the middle of a conversation of which you aren't party, start calling people names, and then say you're not going to defend yourself because it wouldn't be nice.
That's dishonest and underhanded.
Had you truly been interested in not flaming, you'd have kept your mouth shut in the first place.
Now go count threads in which I've participated, so you can retract your earlier slander.
--Satan, quoted by John Milton
And for future reference, you don't need to report every single post in the thread. Ahem.
[ 05-04-2003: Message edited by: Winston Churchill ]
