Mr. Parcelan fucked around with this message on 02-26-2008 at 06:09 PM.
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Delphi Aegis thought about the meaning of life:
And fal: Are you just shadow destruction? For trash, I just bolt (Because it dies too fast anyway) but for any boss where you have to move a lot (Aran, just for instance) DoTs make meaffliction.
Hell, I still rape Aran for damage while moving around. The last damage meters I posted in this thread were from a kara raid. You really don't move enough on Aran for Affliction to win out over destruction, really. Blizzard = run through him, arcane explosion = you're running for about 7 seconds. Otherwise, you're raping his face with shadow bolts.
I laughed.
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x--WilliasO-('-'Q) :
On the PTR, Shaman's Flametongue now puts a debuff on the target that reduces healing by 50%. Doesn't work on the totem, only the normal self-only weapon.I laughed.
I wonder if it stacks with MS for TOTAL HEALING PREVENTION!!!!one!!
Shaman need more mobility and survivability. There's another change going in for the enh talent Toughness makes it to where the talent gives 10% movement impairment duration reduction (50% when maxed) which I guess helps along with instant cast Ghost Wolf (when talented), but these all seem like bandaid fixes than actually giving the class something good or needed.
Kind of like giving hunters Aimed Mortal Strike and Arcane Purge.
Eagerly awaiting it breaking snares and roots, becoming Travel Form 2.0
Wee
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If only Taeldian hadn't said this:
Sounds to me like Enhancement Shamans might go from "I couldn't lose if I tried" to "How the hell am I supposed to beat this" next patch.Wee
What you've always done. Attack them with a melee class or use a snare.
What Shaman needed was -50% effectiveness of snares, not -50% duration. 5 seconds is still a long enough time for a warrior to keep you hamstrung constantly or for a frost mage to get another ice bolt off. Really the only thing the current buff will help us against are hunters. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 08:20 AM.
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Blindy. had this to say about Punky Brewster:
What you've always done. Attack them with a melee class or use a snare.What Shaman needed was -50% effectiveness of snares, not -50% duration. 5 seconds is still a long enough time for a warrior to keep you hamstrung constantly or for a frost mage to get another ice bolt off. Really the only thing the current buff will help us against are hunters.
The snare from Rank 1 Frostbolt will last 2.5 seconds against them.
Granted, I've relied a lot more heavily on r1 frostbolts than I've probably needed to, but the idea of a shaman whose snare is already more powerful than mine, is instant cast, lasts a lot longer, and has an instant cast movement buff is pretty scary. Taeldian fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 12:31 PM.
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I bet you never expected Taeldian to say:
The snare from Rank 1 Frostbolt will last 2.5 seconds against them.Granted, I've relied a lot more heavily on r1 frostbolts than I've probably needed to, but the idea of a shaman whose snare is already more powerful than mine, is instant cast, lasts a lot longer, and has an instant cast movement buff is pretty scary.
You know you can blink out of frost shock. Or frost nova the shaman. Or use your pet to frost nova the shaman. Or turn on ice armor and wait for a lucky frostbite. If the shaman is keeping you frost shocked then they aren't earth shocking your longer cast times, so enjoy them. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 12:51 PM.
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Blindy. probably says this to all the girls:
You know you can blink out of frost shock. Or frost nova the shaman. Or use your pet to frost nova the shaman. Or turn on ice armor and wait for a lucky frostbite. If the shaman is keeping you frost shocked then they aren't earth shocking your longer cast times, so enjoy them.
Really?!
I'm well aware of all of these things.
ps: if the Shaman is capable of keeping track of his keyboard long enough to bash his head into it, I will not have Ice Armor for any amount of time. Even using rank1 Frost Armor, he can continually purge it every time I throw it up. This isn't a major limitation, but Frost Armor has little to nothing to do with Enhancement Shamans.
EDIT: "Blink out of Frost Shock" isn't really accurate. Blink only removes roots; not snares. Taeldian fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 01:17 PM.
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I bet you never expected Taeldian to say:
Really?!I'm well aware of all of these things.
ps: if the Shaman is capable of keeping track of his keyboard long enough to bash his head into it, I will not have Ice Armor for any amount of time. Even using rank1 Frost Armor, he can continually purge it every time I throw it up. This isn't a major limitation, but Frost Armor has little to nothing to do with Enhancement Shamans.
EDIT: "Blink out of Frost Shock" isn't really accurate. Blink only removes roots; not snares.
All I know is that I've never been able to stick to a frost mage, and I don't think instant ghostwolf is going to change that when you can't purge or frost shock in ghostwolf form.
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Blindy.'s account was hax0red to write:
You know you can blink out of frost shock. Or frost nova the shaman. Or use your pet to frost nova the shaman. Or turn on ice armor and wait for a lucky frostbite. If the shaman is keeping you frost shocked then they aren't earth shocking your longer cast times, so enjoy them.
And if you are using the longer cast times then he doesn't need frost shock.
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Naimah + Naimah = 2Naimah:
And if you are using the longer cast times then he doesn't need frost shock.
You use the longer cast times when they're rooted by a frostbite or frost nova or you just blinked behind them and you've got a second or so while they reacquire you before they come after you again. If they've been frost shocking then earth shock will likely be on cool down, so get off a bolt->lance and then start moving again.
Granted, my 70 frost mage experience is from the arenas and BGs in the 2.2? patch PTR, my own mage is only 38, and my shaman is only level 64, but I got to say, My shaman has always felt powerless versus frost mages unless I get the drop and a lucky stormstrike->wind fury->earth shock tripple crit, and my frost mage has always felt like they were in complete control of the situation. Get yourself some distance and then abuse it. You've got plenty of tools to work with. The Shaman is limited by their shock cooldown and needing to tactically choose between two different shocks and will purge liberally only when caught at range and closing. You only need to have ice armor up for two or three hits to get the effect to proc. If you don't have an instant to pop when they close in, pop frost armor rank one at least and they won't notice to purge for at least a second or two, which might be enough time for you to get some advantage out of it. Blindy. fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 02:05 PM.
This means you can Frost Shock and hop right back into Ghost Wolf over and over and over again. Ghost Wolf is only 100 mana.
Longer casts means giving the Shaman time to catch up and are very easy to ground. Smart Shamans use Grounding Totems the way a smart Warrior uses Spell Reflection: waiting until a cast is almost done before dropping it. Even ice lancing a totem means giving the shaman more time to break out of nova and catch you.
It's never a matter of just "nova them and cast a frostbolt."
The reason it's always been so easy for a Mage to kite a shaman is because it's so easy to get a snare on the shaman and keep them out of range indefinitely. When the shaman has an extremely convenient way to boost his own run speed while reducing the duration of your snares, he will be able to catch back up 100% of the time.
It's still unlikely that Mages will just start falling over against enhancement shamans, but there's no question that Enhancement Shamans will become a more difficult fight - the only question is how much more difficult.
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Blindy. had this to say about Captain Planet:
Granted, my 70 frost mage experience is from the arenas and BGs in the 2.2? patch PTR, my own mage is only 38, and my shaman is only level 64, but I got to say, My shaman has always felt powerless versus frost mages unless I get the drop and a lucky stormstrike->wind fury->earth shock tripple crit, and my frost mage has always felt like they were in complete control of the situation. Get yourself some distance and then abuse it. You've got plenty of tools to work with. The Shaman is limited by their shock cooldown and needing to tactically choose between two different shocks and will purge liberally only when caught at range and closing. You only need to have ice armor up for two or three hits to get the effect to proc. If you don't have an instant to pop when they close in, pop frost armor rank one at least and they won't notice to purge for at least a second or two, which might be enough time for you to get some advantage out of it.
I should note that I haven't lost to an enhancement shaman since sometime November 2006. I know how to fight them and have been nothing but successful in fighting them. When I said I couldn't lose to an Enhancement Shaman if I tried, I meant it.
There's a possibilty that the next patch could overcompensate and unbalance the fight in favor of the Shaman. Now I haven't played on the PTR so I really can't say either way. All I'm saying is that the changes are going to make things a lot harder. If it makes the fight balanced, perfect. If it makes it extremely difficult for the Mage, that sucks.
I used to be able to flawless almost every high-end hunter on my server back before 2.3, and I didn't think the 2.3 changes would change the hunter vs. mage duel very much at all. A few months later, even the mediocre ones (anyone who doesn't backpedal) give me a lot of trouble. Taeldian fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 02:14 PM.
And dropping out of ghost wolf to frost shock is still 1.5 seconds of running at normal/snared speed, assuming perfect timing and zero latency.
By the way (and off topic) I haven't played a high mage since a while ago, can you spell steal water shield? Blindy. fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 02:22 PM.
quote:Yes, I am aware. The Mage won't have an opportunity to attempt a cast much more often than every 15 (13 talented) seconds. That's already true on live; I don't see it suddenly changing after the patch.
Blindy. had this to say about Robocop:
Grounding totem is on a long cooldown timer.
quote:Which is still as fast or faster than the Mage. A Mage has to be specced into Permafrost just to match Frost Shock's snare, and very few Mages spec that way.
And dropping out of ghost wolf to frost shock is still 1.5 seconds of running at normal/snared speed, assuming perfect timing and zero latency.
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By the way (and off topic) I haven't played a high mage since a while ago, can you spell steal water shield?
You could, but I'm not sure why you would.
Water Shield costs 0 mana, and Spell Steal costs ~650. Taeldian fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 02:23 PM.
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Taeldian had this to say about the Spice Girls:
You could, but I'm not sure why you would.Water Shield costs 0 mana, and Spell Steal costs ~650.
Water Shield has 3 charges, each charge when hit restores 200 mana, and then it also gives 50 mp/5. So after 5 seconds, you didn't spend any mana, and if you can kill the shaman before they knock off Water Shield, you now have a nice source of extra mana regen.
Also, the change is on Movement Impairing effects. That would work on roots too, wouldn't it? Willias fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 02:28 PM.
quote:Theoretically, yes. In practice, it'll get purged right off. If he dies before he gets a chance, I suppose that's helpful.
Check out the big brain on Willias!
Water Shield has 3 charges, each charge when hit restores 200 mana, and then it also gives 50 mp/5. So after 5 seconds, you didn't spend any mana, and if you can kill the shaman before they knock off Water Shield, you now have a nice source of extra mana regen.
quote:That would be pretty awful.
Also, the change is on Movement Impairing effects. That would work on roots too, wouldn't it?
Taeldian fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 02:32 PM.
New patch notes state that Flametongue Totem is intended to have the same MS effect as Flametongue weapon.
WHERE ARE YOUR HEALERS NOW
God know how this will work with the 1.0GCD totem drops... Delphi Aegis fucked around with this message on 02-28-2008 at 05:46 PM.
# Flametongue Weapon damage effects for rank 3 and above now also reduce healing done to the target by 50% and lasts 5 seconds.
# Flametongue Totem damage effects now also reduce healing done to the target by 50% and lasts 5 seconds.
And yeah, it's bugged at the moment. Someone put in a + instead of a - I guess.
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A sleep deprived Willias stammered:
From notes:# Flametongue Weapon damage effects for rank 3 and above now also reduce healing done to the target by 50% and lasts 5 seconds.
# Flametongue Totem damage effects now also reduce healing done to the target by 50% and lasts 5 seconds.And yeah, it's bugged at the moment. Someone put in a + instead of a - I guess.
Aye, I know that's from the NOTES, but I was on test last night and saw the actual tooltip for the debuff. And it said healing done, not healing received, like Mortal Strike and Aimed Shot do.
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There was much rejoicing when Azymyth said this:
Anyone playing a warrior relay the pros and cons of 2Hander Arms vs. DW Fury?
In what? PvE or PvP? Cos I don't think there's much choice if you're going for PvP. 
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Delphi Aegis spewed forth this undeniable truth:
In what? PvE or PvP? Cos I don't think there's much choice if you're going for PvP.
Sorry, for an effective leveling build. I'll probably go Protection later.
Any warrior can tank pretty well for a normal group.
2 pence to the first to spot the joke.
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There was much rejoicing when Blindy. said this:
My brother and I have started a permagroup of horde characters on Duskwood. Anyone willing to send me a getting started fund? It sucks having nothing but 4 slot bags. My character's name is Foxtrott, his is Whiskie, and his pet is named Tango.2 pence to the first to spot the joke.
wtf
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Manticore's got nothing.wtf
!!
affliction.
