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Mr. Parcelan's account was hax0red to write:
WHAT?! Religion has some legitimate use as a guide for someone's life and isn't the popular belief that it's all voodoo and bupkus? IMPOSSIBLE! I WON'T STAND FOR IT!
Having a guide for your life is not necessarily a good thing. 
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Jens obviously shouldn't have said:
Having a guide for your life is not necessarily a good thing.
It is when you need someone to turn to on a decision
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How.... Mr. Parcelan.... uughhhhhh:
It is when you need someone to turn to on a decision
Well, yeah, but it's a lot easier to turn to yourself without projecting it on some infallable man in the sky. Margin of fuckup is smaller, too. That's obviously not an issue when it comes to personal choices, but when it comes to choices where people die, isn't it kinda dangerous to believe you're in the absolute, unmistakable right?
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Karnaj said this about your mom:
Of course, I wouldn't put too much stock in the above quote, but it does illustrate how scary it is when someone thinks an invisible man in the sky is talking to him. "God told me to do it! I cannot, therefore, be wrong!"
I never worry too much when he says stuff like that, since he's almost certainly just pandering.
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Zaza had this to say about Cuba:
Well, yeah, but it's a lot easier to turn to yourself without projecting it on some infallable man in the sky. Margin of fuckup is smaller, too. That's obviously not an issue when it comes to personal choices, but when it comes to choices where people die, isn't it kinda dangerous to believe you're in the absolute, unmistakable right?
It's not even that. You're exaggerating and you know it.
It's about having a tough choice and turning to a source of advice. You do it all the time, I bet. You turn to friends, parents and loved ones. You don't necessarily follow it immediately, because it may not be the advice you're looking for.
A church is a way of life, but it's not a ruling. It's a community. Like with any other problem, you can turn to your priest and your community as you could anyone else. They'll give you advice based upon what the beliefs you both share are.
This is what I see it as, anyhow. I can't speak for the people who kill or persecute because it's "God's will." God, in my opinion, does not want that and it's simply people using an excuse to live out their own violent desires, like Islamic fundamentalists.
So, yes, there are some wackos out there. But I thought that if we were capable of seeing that not every Islamic was a suicide bomber, we were also capable of seeing that religion has some uses beyond giving a reason to act like a crazy.
And since very few modern personal questions are addressed directly in the bible (and god said to Geroge Bush, ye shall seek out the leader of the Iraqis and serve him to justice), there's a lot of intrepretation going on. Again, another internal source of guidance.
Really, all it does is give people something to try to logically tie to in order to reaffirm their decisions. I don't see any problem with using it to make decisions with, even though I'm agnostic/leaning on atheist. Waisz fucked around with this message on 11-03-2004 at 05:51 PM.
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Mr. Parcelan stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
It's not even that. You're exaggerating and you know it.It's about having a tough choice and turning to a source of advice. You do it all the time, I bet. You turn to friends, parents and loved ones. You don't necessarily follow it immediately, because it may not be the advice you're looking for.
A church is a way of life, but it's not a ruling. It's a community. Like with any other problem, you can turn to your priest and your community as you could anyone else. They'll give you advice based upon what the beliefs you both share are.
This is what I see it as, anyhow. I can't speak for the people who kill or persecute because it's "God's will." God, in my opinion, does not want that and it's simply people using an excuse to live out their own violent desires, like Islamic fundamentalists.
So, yes, there are some wackos out there. But I thought that if we were capable of seeing that not every Islamic was a suicide bomber, we were also capable of seeing that religion has some uses beyond giving a reason to act like a crazy.
Absolutely. It's a state of mind to me, and of course it can have both benevolent and malicious effects. I just don't think it should belong in truly important decision-making, just like I don't think anyone should legislate based on their unfounded crazy theory that milk drinking causes genocide.
Dr. Cysa, you're a narrow-minded bigot that would fit perfectly in just about any extremist church. Are you trying to identify with the enemy or something?
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nem-x wrote, obviously thinking too hard:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1054/1054_01.asp
Dude, is the D&D comic still on that site?
I need to show it to my group here. It'll be hilarious.
Anyways, I'm not narrow minded or a bigot. Note that my problem is with Islamic Fundamentalists. I believe i am perfectly with in my right to not like any group of people who think killing me would be a good thing(while there are suprising amount, and many more on EC now)
I'm technically agnostic so I'm not welcome is most churchs, but i'm extremely open to new ideas, I may not like them, but I'm willing to accept them. I don't see your basis for calling me a biggot, if you care to explain that I would love it. Also I am techincally an extremist in things I WOULD LIKE TO DO, I don't go through with them because I know the are unreasonable. Seriously you might as well yell at all men because they want to have sex with beautiful women, just because they want something doesn't make them shallow.
My rant was made because I don't like the fact that people preform terrible things and declare it in the name of the their religion or whatever in the name of their religion, and then there is a big to do about whether or not we are allowed to persecute them or in certian circumstances, hunt them down(I'm refering to a few instances where the extremists hid in a church and attacked soldiers, and people were protesting that we couldn't go in cause we weren't Islamic).
I will make this very clear so you people can understand why I'm yelling about Islamic fundamentalists and not the other religious nut jobs.
CURRENTLY ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISTS HOLD SEATS OF POWER IN THE MIDDLE EAST
They are currently the most active and destructive. I know Isreal isn't much better, but most of their attacks are generalized on an enemy nation, but still alot of what they do is unexcuseable. Along with many christian extremeists. MY POINT IS THIS!
Also Deth, the reason I chose to do this was because of a few articles I read stating that what these people did are and doing is party of their religion. I would also like to point out that many held Nazi's beliefs almost religously. And as far as Genocide is concerned, Islamic fundamentalists aren't stopping with Jews.
Anyways the major reason I was up in arms about this was because some chick had argued with me during my logic class about whether or not it was right to invade Iraq and attack these churchs and religous places. Our problems isn't to bad with the nonreligous parts of the country, its with the Religous parts, and right now most of the people in power in these religions are extremists and are teaching their children to be extremists, and i feel its someone's(maybe not specificly the US) job to step in and do something about it.
So here it is Agree or disagree:
Do you feel in circumstances where Extremists are holding enough power to lash out against unsuspecting or unprepared citizens, and are able to continuosly do this, should someone step in and try to interfere with the religous order such as removing certain people from religous office?
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Dr Cysa was listening to Cher while typing:
CURRENTLYISLAMICCHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISTS HOLD SEATS OF POWER IN THEMIDDLE EASTUNITED STATES
And Why the fuck does everyone think I like christians? I hate them more, but they aren't as bad of threat right now.
I honestly do hate the christian religion and just about all it stands for, but I'm not gonna get started on that.
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Dr Cysa impressed everyone with:
Unfortunately the christian fundamentalists in america aren't running around promoting the killing of innocent people.And Why the fuck does everyone think I like christians? I hate them more, but they aren't as bad of threat right now.
I honestly do hate the christian religion and just about all it stands for, but I'm not gonna get started on that.
Wow thanks
It's not something people hear about.
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Sean had this to say about Punky Brewster:
And people thought I was offensive.
You're just physically offensive.
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So quoth Dr Cysa:
its not a lie, I do. I don't care about its members as much, but as far as the religions is concerned I don't like it and don't want to have anything to do with it. It really does annoy me when people just assume I'm christian or catholic or anything involving the religion.
Okay, I'll do it.
Are you jewish?
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Dr Cysa was listening to Cher while typing:
I believe I mentioned it earlier, but I'm Agnostic technically. I don't care too much for any of the major religions to follow them. Though I am inclined to prefer the Jewish religion to other religions.
This is where I'm going to come out and say it;
You reek of seventeen-ism. People do not prefer religions; you prefer chains of pizza delivery, or brands of shoes, you believe in a religion. You have faith in a religion.
For Christ's sake, and no pun intended, I'm not a religious person at all, and even I'm offended by the horrible, horrible things in this thread. I honestly don't know quite what to say, I don't think I've been this disgusted with a thread in the three and a half years I've been here.
It's not something people hear about.
And besides saying I can't stand the christian religion I would like to know what else I said that so greatly offended EVERYONE, that they had to argue me when my point was "Islamic Fundamentalists are BAD".
Ask most people and they will tell you all Fundamentalists are bad. But here on EC people will argue anything, specially if you get specific on something you don't like.
Edit: I think people just came into the thread with the knowledge I mentioned Nazis and just went from there. Dr Cysa fucked around with this message on 11-04-2004 at 01:08 AM.
Death of Rats fucked around with this message on 11-04-2004 at 01:13 AM.
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Death of Rats had this to say about Tron:
The problem with turning to any holy book in helping descion making, is that with taking advice from any source, is that its easy to become dependent on that source, or even to let it make the descions for you instead of just taking the advice and veiwing it as ADVICE and not taking it as a final be all answer.
Except, see my post. A book can't make decisions for you. In the end, you're the one deciding everything.
I'm just going to give a little advice; If you haven't got your thoughts on a subject sorted out and in a clear, concise argument when you go to make the thread, just let it go.
Having to double back and explain one's self does not only cause problems when it comes time to defend your point, but it just looks bad. Especially if you then tell everyone else to decipher your point in a condescending manner.
"Hindsight may be 20/20, but your foresight is in need of prescription eyewear."
It's not something people hear about.
Anyways, I'm really religious for a nonreligious person which makes argueing akward for me. My family is in fact christian so I have had that force fed to for about 18 years, I've done studies both at school and at home of the major religions hoping to find one that makes sense to me. So if I bitch about something in a religion usually I do know what I'm talking about.
As far as the killing infidels, reread your korans. Not that the whole thing is hell bent on killing us, but there are parts that are anti-nonmuslims and the Fundamentalists take it the wrong way, just like Christian fundamentalists misinterpret the bible.
Dr Cysa fucked around with this message on 11-04-2004 at 01:48 AM.
Koran:
Believers! wage war against such of the infidels as are your neighbors, and let them find you rigorous. (9:124)
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Dr Cysa stopped beating up furries long enough to write:
I will state my appology here, I was kinda baked a for a good chunk of last night...
My head a splode.
Hay look, the Qu'ran isn't the only angry religious text out there. 
P.S: This is in the Bible AND the Torah. Mr. Gainsborough fucked around with this message on 11-04-2004 at 01:50 AM.
Dr Cysa fucked around with this message on 11-04-2004 at 01:54 AM.
Edit: off the top of my head:
'A man whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off must not be admitted to the congregation of Yahweh.' (Dt 23:1)
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ACES! Another post by Waisz:
Except, see my post. A book can't make decisions for you. In the end, you're the one deciding everything.
I agree with you that the bible doesn't directly have advice with modern day problems, but i think people do try to take what advice/morals/commands that were right or thought to be right hundreds, or thousands of years ago and try to fit them to today standards. As for the other part, I agree with you partialy, but I haven't been able to put my argument together yet *hands waisz a IOU for an opinon at a later date.*
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Mr. Parcelan's account was hax0red to write:
Sand grandmas....sandmas.
You're offending me. My grandmother is a Sand Wurm. Ass. 
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Dr Cysa probably says this to all the girls:
Unfortunately the christian fundamentalists in america aren't running around promoting the killing of innocent people.And Why the fuck does everyone think I like christians? I hate them more, but they aren't as bad of threat right now.
I honestly do hate the christian religion and just about all it stands for, but I'm not gonna get started on that.
Roe vs. Wade?
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Mr. Gainsborough enlisted the help of an infinite number of monkeys to write:
So are we gonna kill all the people who follow the teachings of the Bible, Torah, and the Qu'ran now? Ok. That's cool. We're gonna need alot of ammo for this one.
My point is that those who follow the books like with no room for interpretation are a danger and are something to be delt with.
Unlike Christianity, where we have our King James and various editions where the message stays the same... Most transcripts of what Mohammed passed onto various scribes are incredibly subjective. When in Arabic. Now, translate it into English and it's an even larger mess. Really, the best way to do it, short of learning Arabic yourself (harder than it may sound, even if it does already sound very hard), is to take various translations, and transcripts of the same writings, and compare them, see what holds true in all of them, and write that down as something that may be a fact.
It's really easy to grab a phrase like "Wage war on the infidels" out of it all.
This is without even getting into the movement that came about in the past 40 years or so to "rewrite" Islamic scripture into a "language for the common man." Not a terrible idea, as some text can be pretty opaque, same goes with the Christian Bible. But then when you consider how... political Islam can be in the Middle East, interpretations and editions become even more unreliable.
Islam is more complex than people tend to give it credit. Which is why it bothers me when people are like "Yeah, I read up on Islam, and I've got the hang of it now." You better have some number of years and organized instruction to back that up.
Yes, what has happened in the Middle-East is by and large a terrible thing. But it is not Islam that is the source of it. Not a single thing in the living world is a single-variable equation.
Religion is very much a personal thing, I'm still not sure entirely what you're trying to say, other than Islamic Fundamentalists want to kill you, apparently. I'm sure there's extremists on all sides of every fence that wouldn't mind turning you into a grease spot. It's just largely prevalent in a lot of Arabic fundamentalist religious groups, because they feel they're at war. I'm not sure what could have given them that idea, really.
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Mr. Gainsborough stumbled drunkenly to the keyboard and typed:
You're offending me. My grandmother is a Sand Wurm. Ass.
I'm allowed to do it. My uncle's a Sarlacc.
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How.... Mr. Parcelan.... uughhhhhh:
I'm allowed to do it. My uncle's a Sarlacc.
Oh ok. Sorry, brotha.
