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Blindy. got served! Blindy. got served!
he's a libertarian not a misogynist

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whats the fucking difference amirite lololololooolbertarians

But seriously, those MRA dudes are creepy as hell.

Marad�n isn't one of those people.

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Drysart says po-ta-to, I say pa-ta-to:
A lot of people who are libertarian claim to support the idea of a free market but then also go and support anti-union laws.

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Many unions historically were infact owned and controlled by organized crime as a form of extortion, which doesn't really belong in a free market.

We kinda threw the baby out with the bathwater, though.

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Blindy. came out of the closet to say:
Many unions historically were infact owned and controlled by organized crime as a form of extortion, which doesn't really belong in a free market.

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A lot of corporations are owned and controlled by people who get involved in the same sorts of activities, under the blessing of law. Just because something was associated with crime doesn't mean there's necessarily a causal relationship between the two.

And not to mention that a lot of what made organized crime "crime" are things libertarians don't think should be illegal anyway. Hell, protection racketeering is exactly what they're asking for when they say they want privatized security and police forces.

Stripped of state involvement and coercive power, voluntary unions would likely be benevolent.

And what on earth made you think I was a gamergater or some kind of MRM goon? I see major issues with both sides of the "gamergate" conflict, but I evaluate their representatives individually. If gaming journalism really were totally free of corruption and quid-pro-quo sexual favors, I suspect that would make it completely different from every other type of journalism. On the other hand, a bunch of ritalin popping neckbeards fuming over their latest friendzone making fucking death threats really overshadow any hope of productive dialogue.

KARNAJ THE EVER RIGHT

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Maradon! came out of the closet to say:
Unions have an extremely checkered history when it comes to employing coercion over voluntary interaction. Most egregious examples of union power have nothing to do with workers or voluntary collective action at all. The strike, for example, would be ineffective if employers were not forbidden by the state from simply replacing the striking workers.

Stripped of state involvement and coercive power, voluntary unions would likely be benevolent.

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Then why do libertarians support "right to work" laws that forbid employers from even voluntarily entering into binding contracts with unions regarding hiring and staffing practices and invalidating their existing agreements, like what was recently passed in Michigan? It's not a free market law in any sense of the word, yet libertarians as a whole love them like ice cream.

Also, please explain why the state of "do what we ask without question or representation, or we'll fire you" which exists without labor solidarity is not also coercion.

Drysart fucked around with this message on 03-20-2015 at 07:01 PM.

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Over the mountain, in between the ups and downs, I ran into Drysart who doth quote:
Then why do libertarians support "right to work" laws that forbid employers from even voluntarily entering into binding contracts with unions regarding hiring and staffing practices and invalidating their existing agreements, like what was recently passed in Michigan? It's not a free market law in any sense of the word, yet libertarians as a whole love them like ice cream.

Also, please explain why the state of "do what we ask without question or representation, or we'll fire you" which exists without labor solidarity is not also coercion.

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Because forming an anti-competitive contract is coercive of people not subject to the contract. In a corporation we call the exact same thing "monopolistic power," and unions are fundamentally the same sort of entity as a corporation. Their product is labor and it's coercive for them to attempt to forbid others to freely buy or sell.

I vehemently disagree with the second part of your post. I'm not opposed to labor solidarity any more than I am to collective action of any kind, it's only when unions reach for the guns of the state to force behavior in others that I object.

In other words, how is it any more coercive for the employees in any way for them to be subject to the union than it is for them to be subject to the company itself as its employee?

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Maradon! probably says this to all the girls:
And what on earth made you think I was a gamergater or some kind of MRM goon? I see major issues with both sides of the "gamergate" conflict, but I evaluate their representatives individually. If gaming journalism really were totally free of corruption and quid-pro-quo sexual favors, I suspect that would make it completely different from every other type of journalism. On the other hand, a bunch of ritalin popping neckbeards fuming over their latest friendzone making fucking death threats really overshadow any hope of productive dialogue.

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this was well put

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While possessed by the spirit of Somthor, Maradon! wrote:
Unions have an extremely checkered history when it comes to employing coercion over voluntary interaction. Most egregious examples of union power have nothing to do with workers or voluntary collective action at all. The strike, for example, would be ineffective if employers were not forbidden by the state from simply replacing the striking workers.

Stripped of state involvement and coercive power, voluntary unions would likely be benevolent.

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agreed, it's very Problematic when unions do exactly what they were created to do (i.e., prevent employers with the financial space for holding long time preferences from exploiting employees without that financial space; lobby government on behalf of employees for a regulatory environment that considers labor concerns).

IMO it would be more gooder if we removed the primary means by which unions wield power at all and made it so they could only symbolically represent employees by writing mean letters to companies

:-(

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Addy has a secret obsession with Richard Simmons, as evidenced by...
i'm in a union and i work in advertising sales

:-(

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drysart what's wrong with the image tag

very important poster fucked around with this message on 04-24-2015 at 06:02 PM.

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very important poster came out of the closet to say:
[Invalid image tag]

drysart what's wrong with the image tag

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What are you trying to link to?

very important poster fucked around with this message on 04-27-2015 at 10:26 AM.

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very important poster has funnier quote texts than me:
i uploaded it to imgur and it works

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thats a good image im going to save it to my dropbox

very important poster fucked around with this message on 05-12-2015 at 10:08 AM.

But seriously, I have not encountered one libertarian whose system stands up under scrutiny. Or rather, at some point, the result of their proposals becomes completely batshit crazy.