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Topic: DnD based question
Sabratiz
Pancake
posted 01-20-2005 08:34:34 PM
So my DM decided to take a break from his campaign, at which time one of the players decided he was going to start his campaign (he has been working on it for a while). This brought up the question what class should I be. I like the idea of ninja but I have very little knowledge on it. As far as I understand the campaign wont be limited as to what class you can be. So if anyone has any classes they like and/or information on the ninja class that'd be nice.

Thanks in advance

pain is temporary but pride is forever
Elvish Crack Piper
Murder is justified so long as people believe in something different than you do
posted 01-20-2005 08:39:10 PM
Oriental Adventures or Complete Warrior should have stuff for it.
(Insert Funny Phrase Here)
Sean
posted 01-20-2005 08:44:05 PM
Abandon the idea and come up with something both more practical and imaginative.*

* Jaded cynicism.

A Kansas City Shuffle is when everybody looks right, you go left.

It's not something people hear about.

Sabratiz
Pancake
posted 01-20-2005 08:46:53 PM
Well I'm really just looking for information on classes that my fellow ECers think are good, as far as I know we have a Barbarian and a Death Touched Battle Sorcerer (god only knows what the hell that is).
pain is temporary but pride is forever
Sean
posted 01-20-2005 08:53:28 PM
In my opinion, and I know a few people can agree, what makes a character 'good' is the character, not the class they are based on. Create a concept first, and then build the character to fit it; not the other way around.

If you can start with a solid, interesting concept with which to build from, you can enter a game with a character that has more depth than "I do this, in this manner, aren't I COOL?".

A Kansas City Shuffle is when everybody looks right, you go left.

It's not something people hear about.

Densetsu
NOT DRYSART
posted 01-20-2005 09:02:38 PM
The 3.0 Sword and Fist supplement has a prestige class called Ninja of the Crescent Moon. If you have a decent DM, he could easily adapt it to 3.5 if that's what you are playing. Keep in mind that it is a prestige class, though, and thus has certain requirements you must meet in order to take levels in the class. You cannot start out as the class as a level 1 character.
I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl, we ate lobster, drank piƱa coladas. At sunset, we made love like sea otters. That was a pretty good day. Why couldn't I get that day over, and over?
Dr. Gee
Say it Loud, Say it Plowed!
posted 01-20-2005 09:05:32 PM
What Sean's saying about concept is true. Think of who the character is and what he does rather than what class you want. From what it seems like you're talking about you could get away with just doing a straight PHB rogue and midfying it through feats and equipment choice.
Sabratiz
Pancake
posted 01-20-2005 10:10:35 PM
Well I've decided on the Wild Reaper variant druid. It isnt too much different from a normal druid minus a few small things. Most likely this character will be drow, but I'll have to talk to the DM to make sure my class and race choices are plausable. Otherwise back to the drawing board. Its kind of a different end of the spectrum from ninja, but it sounds fun.
pain is temporary but pride is forever
Ruvyen
Cartoon Broccoli Boy
posted 01-20-2005 10:17:31 PM
What is it with people and drow? Honestly, I'd like to see someone play a three-foot ninja, like a halfling or gnome. Not only would there be slight comedy factor involved, halflings make good sneaks overall. Taken from a roleplay perspective, halflings have a tendency to go unnoticed, unless of course they really want to be noticed. A halfling ninja could certainly make great use of racial anonymity.
Thief: "I have come to a realisation. Dragons are not real in a general sense, but they may exist in certain specific cases."
Fighter: "Like how quantum mechanics describes how subatomic particles can spontaneously pop into existence at random!"
Thief: "No, that's stupid and stop making up words."
--8-Bit Theater
Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 01-20-2005 10:18:50 PM
drow...druid...
Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 01-20-2005 10:19:54 PM
quote:
Ruvyen had this to say about Tron:
What is it with people and drow? Honestly, I'd like to see someone play a three-foot ninja, like a halfling or gnome. Not only would there be slight comedy factor involved, halflings make good sneaks overall. Taken from a roleplay perspective, halflings have a tendency to go unnoticed, unless of course they really want to be noticed. A halfling ninja could certainly make great use of racial anonymity.

A gnome Ninja would be nasty. Racial cantrips for distraction, plus the tendency towards clever constructions...tasty.

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael fucked around with this message on 01-20-2005 at 10:20 PM.

Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

Norim Stumpfighter
Milkmaid
posted 01-20-2005 10:32:43 PM
my favorite class of all time is dwarven battlerager, man my party members hated me
Lyinar Ka`Bael
Are you looking at my pine tree again?
posted 01-20-2005 10:37:12 PM
Deth has halfling ninja gardeners in his campaign.

You don't walk on the grass in his campaign. YOu just...don't.


Lyinar Ka`Bael, Piney Fresh Druidess - Luclin

Falaanla Marr
I AM HOT CHIX
posted 01-20-2005 10:53:12 PM
quote:
Sabratiz obviously shouldn't have said:
Well I've decided on the Wild Reaper variant druid. It isnt too much different from a normal druid minus a few small things. Most likely this character will be drow, but I'll have to talk to the DM to make sure my class and race choices are plausable. Otherwise back to the drawing board. Its kind of a different end of the spectrum from ninja, but it sounds fun.

Drow + Druid should be a no go.

Of course, if this is the same DM you've described to me, anything is possible.

But seriously. Go with a 3 foot tall halfling ninja. That would be COOL.

If you want, I can help ya with some background on the character when I come home. I'm gonna be starting up again here at school, though one of the nights is a Vampire game instead of D&D.

Sabratiz
Pancake
posted 01-20-2005 11:11:52 PM
No longer going drow, its possibly a githzerai or whatever (cant remember the name offhand, or an aasa......something) only problem I see with the githzerai thingy is that its extraplanar which means "oops.... you've been banished"
Also Fal, this isn't the same DM, the old DM will now be a PC and the older uber half-dragon samurai I told you about will be DM.
pain is temporary but pride is forever
Elvish Crack Piper
Murder is justified so long as people believe in something different than you do
posted 01-20-2005 11:19:13 PM
Arent those ECL +6 or something? I remember some crazy broke gith bit from the expanded psionics book.
(Insert Funny Phrase Here)
Palador ChibiDragon
Dismembered
posted 01-20-2005 11:28:00 PM
Normally I wouldn't say this, and my GMs would laugh themselves sick if they knew that I did, but...

Have you considered playing a Human?

The extra feat and skill points can make a big difference. They have no level adjustment. They tend to get along with everyone somewhat, none of the other standard races has a real problem with them.

If your GM allows it, look through Races of Destiny. Lots of human stuff in there, including some human/half-human only feats.

I believe in the existance of magic, not because I have seen proof of its existance, but because I refuse to live in a world where it does not exist.
Densetsu
NOT DRYSART
posted 01-20-2005 11:30:06 PM
quote:
This insanity brought to you by Palador ChibiDragon:

Have you considered playing a Human?

I think that I'm the only person I know that has actually played a Human in D&D.

I was in the Virgin Islands once. I met a girl, we ate lobster, drank piƱa coladas. At sunset, we made love like sea otters. That was a pretty good day. Why couldn't I get that day over, and over?
Palador ChibiDragon
Dismembered
posted 01-20-2005 11:42:19 PM
quote:
Meow meow meow meow. Meow meow meow meow. Meow meow meow meow Densetsu meow meow meow.
I think that I'm the only person I know that has actually played a Human in D&D.

I'll admit, I don't play them often. But they can be good to play.

I believe in the existance of magic, not because I have seen proof of its existance, but because I refuse to live in a world where it does not exist.
Alaan
posted 01-20-2005 11:47:22 PM
quote:
Sabratiz had this to say about dark elf butts:
No longer going drow, its possibly a githzerai or whatever (cant remember the name offhand, or an aasa......something) only problem I see with the githzerai thingy is that its extraplanar which means "oops.... you've been banished"
Also Fal, this isn't the same DM, the old DM will now be a PC and the older uber half-dragon samurai I told you about will be DM.

Still not a great race for doing a druid. Since they mainly live in the "swirling chaos of Limbo." Not very good place to pick up druid skills logically. At lesat you didn't say Githyanki though! They get tracked down at level 16 by the Lich Queen and get the smack laid down.

Arttemis
Not Squire... but a guitar!
posted 01-20-2005 11:49:15 PM
quote:
Densetsu had this to say about Punky Brewster:
I think that I'm the only person I know that has actually played a Human in D&D.

I played one once, but that character kind of sucked and I'd rather not speak of him again.

Part of it might have been my flakiness, though. I'd either have to work on game days, or couldn't stay connected for more than a couple hours thanks to the magic of the intarweb.

OtakuPenguin
Peels like a tangerine, but is juicy like an orange.
posted 01-20-2005 11:49:23 PM
I've got two PCs running humans right now
..:: This Is The Sound Of Settling ::..
Dr. Gee
Say it Loud, Say it Plowed!
posted 01-20-2005 11:53:29 PM
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Densetsu said:
I think that I'm the only person I know that has actually played a Human in D&D.

I mostly play humans and our current campaign is all human PCs except one due to circumstances in the campaign.

Elvish Crack Piper
Murder is justified so long as people believe in something different than you do
posted 01-21-2005 01:13:58 AM
I will rarely play a non-human. Trying to be a nonhuman is to far out of my ability to roleplay to the extent I'd want to. I play demi's in groups where roleplay doesnt matter.
(Insert Funny Phrase Here)
Falaanla Marr
I AM HOT CHIX
posted 01-21-2005 01:16:18 AM
quote:
This one time, at Sabratiz camp:
No longer going drow, its possibly a githzerai or whatever (cant remember the name offhand, or an aasa......something) only problem I see with the githzerai thingy is that its extraplanar which means "oops.... you've been banished"
Also Fal, this isn't the same DM, the old DM will now be a PC and the older uber half-dragon samurai I told you about will be DM.

Just play a normalish character, the human is actually a good idea. You don't have to be some strange race.

Addy
posted 01-21-2005 01:19:42 AM
The campaigns I've been in are generally either all humans or all elves.

Me? I'm an elf chick. Dig those ears.

Elvish Crack Piper
Murder is justified so long as people believe in something different than you do
posted 01-21-2005 01:44:06 AM
quote:
And I was all like 'Oh yeah?' and Falaanla Marr was all like:
Just play a normalish character, the human is actually a good idea. You don't have to be some strange race.

Yep.

I think deth said in some thread that if the only reason you think your charecter is cool is because its some weird race or class, then you shouldnt bother or something.

I butcher quotes. It was something along the lines of "charectesr are cool for them, not for the stat sheet"

(Insert Funny Phrase Here)
Falaanla Marr
I AM HOT CHIX
posted 01-21-2005 01:50:50 AM
quote:
Addy obviously shouldn't have said:
The campaigns I've been in are generally either all humans or all elves.

Me? I'm an elf chick. Dig those ears.


I wonder if night elf ears are, er...um...er...yeah.

Addy
posted 01-21-2005 01:54:55 AM
quote:
The logic train ran off the tracks when Falaanla Marr said:
I wonder if night elf ears are, er...um...er...yeah.

I'm gonna beat you up.

Falaanla Marr
I AM HOT CHIX
posted 01-21-2005 01:55:55 AM
quote:
Addy stopped staring at Deedlit long enough to write:
I'm gonna beat you up.

Ahahahahaha you don't know where I liv...er...shit.

*hides*

Addy
posted 01-21-2005 01:57:17 AM
quote:
We were all impressed when Falaanla Marr wrote:
Ahahahahaha you don't know where I liv...er...shit.

*hides*


And I have a car too.

Someone is so getting owned.

Falaanla Marr
I AM HOT CHIX
posted 01-21-2005 02:12:32 AM
quote:
Addy had this to say about Matthew Broderick:
And I have a car too.

Someone is so getting owned.


Ah, but I'm up at school. You have no idea where my school is.

HA

Addy
posted 01-21-2005 02:13:42 AM
quote:
ACES! Another post by Falaanla Marr:
Ah, but I'm up at school. You have no idea where my school is.

HA


Mapquest rocks like that.

I'm gonna PK you.

Elvish Crack Piper
Murder is justified so long as people believe in something different than you do
posted 01-21-2005 02:14:45 AM
You know you've been playing to much world of warcraft when someone says "you dont know where I live" and you look at which server they're on.
(Insert Funny Phrase Here)
Nicole
The hip-hop-happiest bunny in all of marshmallow woods
posted 01-21-2005 02:16:35 AM
I'm usually human, unless I have a character concept that cannot be worked as a human.

I desperately want to bring a vahnatai (from the Avernum/Exile series) to Sigil.



I just spent
my last cent
purchasing this poverty.

Falaanla Marr
I AM HOT CHIX
posted 01-21-2005 02:19:32 AM
quote:
Addy spewed forth this undeniable truth:
Mapquest rocks like that.

I'm gonna PK you.


You don't have my apartment information.

Teehee.

Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael
I posted in a title changing thread.
posted 01-21-2005 02:27:52 AM
quote:
There was much rejoicing when Elvish Crack Piper said this:
Yep.

I think deth said in some thread that if the only reason you think your charecter is cool is because its some weird race or class, then you shouldnt bother or something.

I butcher quotes. It was something along the lines of "charectesr are cool for them, not for the stat sheet"


Close enough.

Characters you play solely for their stats or abilities are gimmick characters. Now for short stories, or for dungeon crawls, it's fine to use a gimmick character. Chances are the gimmick will last for about as long as necessary.

For campaigns, IE true roleplay possibilities, a gimmick character is a bad idea. Eventually the joke has played out, the novelty of the gimmick has become passe, and you're left with a hollow creation lacking any originality.

This is NOT to say that you can't have an idea of where you're going with the character to start. When I sat down with my players for HSX, I had a list of problems from previous games. One of those problems were the races.

I made a classic error: Players could in theory be just about any race. As such I had an aasimar, tiefling kender, half dragon elf, half-fiendish dwarf, werefox, and a furre, all in the same party as a gnomish paladin. Oi. First off, Halfbreeds have a higher CR and this was before Savage Species, where you can buy your racial abilities as levels. Plus Aasimar were on a different XP chart. So that was the mechanics issue...trying to give the gang XP became an adventure in mathematics which frustrated me to no end.

Moreover, however, there was this very serious problem of people playing their race card constantly. The half-dragon and the half-fiend were constantly butting heads, in part because the half-fiend didn't know his own strength and almost killed the half-dragon. Never mind the fact that there was this IC question of "why was Dwurt so stupid as to almost kill Lia like that?"; the argument quickly devolved to mechanics. And it showed up elsewhere.

So when HSX came around, I levied an edict: no races not in the PHB. None. I wasn't interested in the juxtaposition of a half fiend happening to be a druid or whatever. I wanted solid character concepts. Don't tell me what your character IS, tell me what your character is LIKE. If the first thing out of your mouth is "my character is a..." or something similar, go back to the drawing board.

As a result, I really pushed my players to grind out some interesting stories and personalities for the characters, before I ever let them start building a sheet. And we ended up with some interesting concepts. Alferd the Half-Orc Barbarian's story could easily be something out of the Godfather. Zook the gnome fighter/sorcerer was an amnesiac found buried alive in a cave by dwarves. They have motivations, inspirations, strengths and weaknesses all without ever having rolled a single die, picked a feat, or spent a skill point.

So you end up with Alferd the Half-Orc barbarian, but he's more a mobster hitman sort of guy. Zook is a pit fighter/professional athlete.

Neither of them are gimmick characters. Neither of them rely on their race to be their interesting point.


THAT is the sort of character build you need to look for, I think, if you want characters with staying power.

Lyinar's sweetie and don't you forget it!*
"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. -Roy Batty
*Also Lyinar's attack panda

sigpic courtesy of This Guy, original modified by me

OtakuPenguin
Peels like a tangerine, but is juicy like an orange.
posted 01-21-2005 02:49:31 AM
I think that may be a bit harsh...

when I play, I think about what I want to play, roll it up, etc...all the time with a general idea of what/where I want this character to go.

From THOSE stats and whatnot, I design the background.

..:: This Is The Sound Of Settling ::..
Y.O.T.C
No longer a Towel Girl
posted 01-21-2005 03:18:15 AM
Fal and addy: Freedom of information act rox.

Other: Ok, if you want to piss the dm off like all hell in a hand basket. lvl 1 pally lvl x sorc

All the pally bonuses includeing the cha mod to saving throws. I refuse to ever let anyone use this, as my friend down the hall showed me a character with +23 on his will save and i looked at him funny.(at lvl 15 and hes half celestrial)

Otherwise id say start out with an idea and fill out Supplemental #5 for that idea, then make the character. It's what I did for Kats game, and that worked well.

githyanki and gitzari or however the other guys are spelled are 2 different races. Both are ecl+2 or +4 cant remember off top of head as i dont have a 3.5 MM to check. The 2 races hate eachother with a passion and are quite fun to play as. Mostly for the Giant Great sword the Githyanki get(get a Mercurial one and make that magicized at 7 as you need to get the exotic weapon profeciency anyways). Beware, their psionic powers tend to make them easy to power game with, and i hate doing that.

or you could just play a human


Edit:

quote:
From the book of Ja'Deth Issar Ka'bael, chapter 3, verse 16:
Close enough.

Characters you play solely for their stats or abilities are gimmick characters. Now for short stories, or for dungeon crawls, it's fine to use a gimmick character. Chances are the gimmick will last for about as long as necessary.

For campaigns, IE true roleplay possibilities, a gimmick character is a bad idea. Eventually the joke has played out, the novelty of the gimmick has become passe, and you're left with a hollow creation lacking any originality.

This is NOT to say that you can't have an idea of where you're going with the character to start. When I sat down with my players for HSX, I had a list of problems from previous games. One of those problems were the races.

I made a classic error: Players could in theory be just about any race. As such I had an aasimar, tiefling kender, half dragon elf, half-fiendish dwarf, werefox, and a furre, all in the same party as a gnomish paladin. Oi. First off, Halfbreeds have a higher CR and this was before Savage Species, where you can buy your racial abilities as levels. Plus Aasimar were on a different XP chart. So that was the mechanics issue...trying to give the gang XP became an adventure in mathematics which frustrated me to no end.

Moreover, however, there was this very serious problem of people playing their race card constantly. The half-dragon and the half-fiend were constantly butting heads, in part because the half-fiend didn't know his own strength and almost killed the half-dragon. Never mind the fact that there was this IC question of "why was Dwurt so stupid as to almost kill Lia like that?"; the argument quickly devolved to mechanics. And it showed up elsewhere.

So when HSX came around, I levied an edict: no races not in the PHB. None. I wasn't interested in the juxtaposition of a half fiend happening to be a druid or whatever. I wanted solid character concepts. Don't tell me what your character IS, tell me what your character is LIKE. If the first thing out of your mouth is "my character is a..." or something similar, go back to the drawing board.

As a result, I really pushed my players to grind out some interesting stories and personalities for the characters, before I ever let them start building a sheet. And we ended up with some interesting concepts. Alferd the Half-Orc Barbarian's story could easily be something out of the Godfather. Zook the gnome fighter/sorcerer was an amnesiac found buried alive in a cave by dwarves. They have motivations, inspirations, strengths and weaknesses all without ever having rolled a single die, picked a feat, or spent a skill point.

So you end up with Alferd the Half-Orc barbarian, but he's more a mobster hitman sort of guy. Zook is a pit fighter/professional athlete.

Neither of them are gimmick characters. Neither of them rely on their race to be their interesting point.


THAT is the sort of character build you need to look for, I think, if you want characters with staying power.


Do you have that speach saved somewhere? I could swear I've read it before...

Y.O.T.C fucked around with this message on 01-21-2005 at 03:19 AM.

Tarquinn
Personally responsible for the decline of the American Dollar
posted 01-21-2005 05:23:04 AM
A long, long time ago... back in the eighties, I encountered some halfling ninjas/martial artists in a PnP RPG. Fuckers could jump 30 feet high, to kick giants in the eyes.
~Never underestimate the power of a Dark Clown.
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